Project Q - Sams 86 (many Tech Pics)

[Jason]

nice work as usual :jamie:

[BiGGy]

Very nice work, skim read the whole thread. All this custom work remind me of my 82 project. Whats your trade?

 

Careful welding around the wheels though, specially brakes. don't let scrutineering/RTA see welds on control arms or brakes, you will get hammered. Also I don't see the point in having 4x40mm intake bodies being forced into a plenum with only one inlet. K&N make high flow ITB filters specially for this, I would recommend them. Here is a pic of mine on my 82. Very good project I will check back for updates :P

 

[Sam_Q]

Very nice work, skim read the whole thread. All this custom work remind me of my 82 project. Whats your trade?

 

Careful welding around the wheels though, specially brakes. don't let scrutineering/RTA see welds on control arms or brakes, you will get hammered. Also I don't see the point in having 4x40mm intake bodies being forced into a plenum with only one inlet. K&N make high flow ITB filters specially for this, I would recommend them. Here is a pic of mine on my 82. Very good project I will check back for updates :dance:

 

 

thanks, your car looks like fun, must sound beasty with an setup like that. I am an industrial electrician by trade, and no i don't like it. The engineer was real funny about the brakes but he said he would see if he could get it past.

 

I have to disagree with you on the intake. Individual throttles arn't for flow, they are for response. A 2.5 inch inlet will in no way restrict the flow of my engine. The airflow meter sure will but thats temporary, later I will have a non restrictive airflow meter.

 

I like how you have the individual air filters, I always thought that the open trumpets was mechanical suicide. One thing though do you have trumpets inside them? if not your would be losing a decent amount of power. Also what ecu are you running?

[BiGGy]

thanks, your car looks like fun, must sound beasty with an setup like that. I am an industrial electrician by trade, and no i don't like it. The engineer was real funny about the brakes but he said he would see if he could get it past.

 

I have to disagree with you on the intake. Individual throttles arn't for flow, they are for response. A 2.5 inch inlet will in no way restrict the flow of my engine. The airflow meter sure will but thats temporary, later I will have a non restrictive airflow meter.

 

I like how you have the individual air filters, I always thought that the open trumpets was mechanical suicide. One thing though do you have trumpets inside them? if not your would be losing a decent amount of power. Also what ecu are you running?

 

running haltech e6x ecu with some pretty long cams to suit. We did a huge amount of research on the intake system before we fit ours, the tapered intake that causes the ram effect is in the throttle bodies themselves, if you measure one of them its a 50mm intake to a 40mm out(roughly) behind the butterfly. This give the ram effect you now just need the velocity behind to increase the effect, the longer the intake pipes before the butterfly the better the effect. The tapered trumpets do very little, in fact most after market ones are straight.

[Sam_Q]

oh I meant on the actual opening to the atmosphere, refering to how its meant to be a bell shape. Also what is the length you think from the head to the last opening?

 

Have you ever taken it down the quarter? it should be pretty quick I would think. Also I know dynos vary heaps but what did you get when you had it tuned?

[beerhead]

Mechanical suicide sounds like a false exaggerated opinion, especially considering people have been running webers with open trumpets and socks for more than 30 years! It's been dyno proven not to affect overall HP, yes we all know an airbox lets you direct exactly where the air is coming from, but at 100kph I bet the air is virtually the same as ambient where the trumpets are feeding.

 

I think your forgetting the biggest advantage of ITBs - when you run high duration cams with massive overlap each cylinder can reverse pulse without affecting the the vacuum in the neighbouring runners, allowing for a sweet idle and a more responsive bottom end.

 

thanks, your car looks like fun, must sound beasty with an setup like that. I am an industrial electrician by trade, and no i don't like it. The engineer was real funny about the brakes but he said he would see if he could get it past.

 

I have to disagree with you on the intake. Individual throttles arn't for flow, they are for response. A 2.5 inch inlet will in no way restrict the flow of my engine. The airflow meter sure will but thats temporary, later I will have a non restrictive airflow meter.

 

I like how you have the individual air filters, I always thought that the open trumpets was mechanical suicide. One thing though do you have trumpets inside them? if not your would be losing a decent amount of power. Also what ecu are you running?

[Sam_Q]

when I said mechanical suicide I was refering to how a few dust storms and your out, I often drive in dusty areas down here. I am sure other areas or during rainy conditions would be different though. If someone did this on a race car then fair enough but this is the only registered car I have and I daily drive it so its not an option.

 

I do somewhat know of what your talking about when it comes to the reversion but your the first person to ever explain it to me instead of just saying "somehow at lower revs it runs smoother with lumpy cams", thanks. I didnt mention it because I couldnt explain it. Apparently if a 16v had the same cam specs as a 20v it would be rougher down low because of this. Afterall 250 degrees of durion isnt small for a stock engine I think.

 

and I am open to corrections on everything I say here as usual

 

 

 

biggy: got any links or more pics on that car of yours, I would like to see more

Edited June 28, 2007 by Sam_Q

[BiGGy]

biggy: got any links or more pics on that car of yours, I would like to see more

 

http://www.rollaclub.com/board/index.php?showtopic=9343

build pics from when we pulled her from the wreckers for $500. We have only just recently put these mods in and its actually at Haltech now getting cams dialed in and dyno tuned. We are goign to use there maps as a base but I'm really looking forwards to playing around with the windows software and doing some data logging at track days. I also would different load maps for hill climbs etc.

 

The bell shaped lip at the end would smooth the air out a bit and help at high rpm, but not with filters on like mine. I run mostly off road track events so filters are a must for my car. Our main concern when planning the ITBs for my car was hot air from around the engine being sucked in. Almost every fwd twin cam itb setup the trumpets are going straight into the firewall. So we made them curve up 45deg to fit just under the bonnet then I replicated the bonnet in fiberglass with a cai scoop straight onto the filters. I'm thinking of making some sort of half pipe plenum to channel the air to the filters, something to test when playing with the e6x.

 

[Sam_Q]

ok neat I will check it out, thanks for the link

Edited June 29, 2007 by Sam_Q

[DARKMAZE]

The engineer was real funny about the brakes but he said he would see if he could get it past.

 

Can I ask what was the issue with the brakes.

 

I only wonder, as I was looking at going with the MA61 supra fronts on my AE71 to go with the 20 valve.

 

Surely it's not that they are not good enough at stopping the car, as I've only heard good reports about the ability of supra brakes to stop the lighter AE's?

[BiGGy]

Can I ask what was the issue with the brakes.

 

I only wonder, as I was looking at going with the MA61 supra fronts on my AE71 to go with the 20 valve.

 

Surely it's not that they are not good enough at stopping the car, as I've only heard good reports about the ability of supra brakes to stop the lighter AE's?

 

As long as you don't have welds connecting brake components, brake brackets should be one piece parts and usually cast. If they see welds around the wheel area they wont like it and prolly tell you to replace it. Welds are the strongest part of a piece of steel, but only when prepped and welded right, a weld can look good but has no penetration.

 

If you are using bolt on upgrades that haven't been modified it should be ok.

Edited July 6, 2007 by BiGGy

[Sam_Q]

heres what I welded and how I did it:

 

- I got the original caliper mount bracket off the ra28 strut that normally bolts to the strut bottom and I chopped part of it off

 

- I then made a peice of metal that bolted to the caliper

 

- bolted the caliper bracket back onto the strut,

 

- spaced the caliper right

 

- welded the bit of steel holding the caliper to the original strut bracket

 

 

so I only welded a new end part onto the strut to caliper bracket and nothing else, I tottaly agree with you Biggy on your comments and I personally wouldnt want to see any welds on any bit of casting on my car.

 

 

DARKMAZE: the ma61 brakes would work wonders for you and your ae71 as it did for my 86, just don't try and fit supra struts in there ok?

 

 

 

also I think i will post my 20v rwd cooling guide on this forum to help the maximum amount of people.

[DARKMAZE]

heres what I welded and how I did it:

..

DARKMAZE: the ma61 brakes would work wonders for you and your ae71 as it did for my 86, just don't try and fit supra struts in there ok?

also I think i will post my 20v rwd cooling guide on this forum to help the maximum amount of people.

 

So.. Basically, if I get a single piece bracket made (milled?) up to mount the supra (RA60) caliper to the AE71 strut, with MA61 disks, it should be alright.

He was mainly worried about the (to put it 'bluntly') 'cut'n'shut' job of the bracket then.

 

Oh.. And I'd love to say thanks for the inspirational job you've done here.

 

I've just started studying mechanical engineering at the moment, and if I can produce something half as good as you're result, I'll be a very happy camper.

[Sam_Q]

1) no that wont work, because the ae71 stut has a smaller axle and hence why I used an ra28 strut, ra23 should be compatable too. Keep in mind you will have to spaw the steering arm also.

 

 

2) your very welcome

 

 

3) and thanks but I hope your a patient person

 

 

 

 

to everyone else I have posted my 20v rwd cooling guide on here:

 

http://www.rollaclub.com/board/index.php?showtopic=14024

Edited July 7, 2007 by Sam_Q

[Sam_Q]

just a quick pic of how my car looks right now as I am waiting on my insurance payout. It has a silver gaurd and my new 7kg Topstage bonnet.