Redwarf Posted June 17, 2004 Report Posted June 17, 2004 Received phone call at about 1730hrs, it's official, it's off. :sad: Quote
demuire Posted June 17, 2004 Report Posted June 17, 2004 Have split offtopic posts to BWCP Have just heard word that there is a *slim* chance they might actually get venue for this weekend, so all may not be lost!!! Will let you all know as soon as I find out... Quote
99 Posted June 17, 2004 Report Posted June 17, 2004 I've had at 2 phone calls, about 30 emails saying that it's cancelled. bugger!! what a pity!! re: the CTP extension - I personally believe that ALL motorkhanas should require them, but HSCCQ have avoided the subject for a while... my understanding is that they don't really know exactly whether they should make people have them..... ignorance is bliss!! :-) If we need 3rd party extension for hillclimbs, autocrosses, khanacrosses, rallying and ALL other types of club level motorsport, what makes motorkhana exempt? The bottom line is that no one really knows and no one seems to be concerned. Actually, the reasons I have been told relate to the barriers - ie, if there are barriers, then there is no risk to 3rd parties outside of the event, therefore no 3rd party insurance extension required. In reality I don't think that barriers at motorkhanas stop the risk at all - when we're at Qld Raceway and we're all in the shed area, we do wonder around outside of that.... and what if a wheel flew off a car and hit a spectator over those "barriers"?? that person would NOT be covered for medical expenses unless the competitor had the 3rd party extension. I would think it would be wise for all organisers to be safe rather than sorry? And that's where I think GCTMC were coming from. I know that motorkhana is an entry level sport and we want to make things as easy as possible for people to enter - I agree wholeheartedly with that. However, the flip side is that if something horrible happened at a motorkhana, that could ruin everything for all of us.... no motorkhanas? Perhaps something to bring up at the motorkhana panel fook? .... and maybe this is a separate thread, I don't know!! Quote
demuire Posted June 18, 2004 Report Posted June 18, 2004 Mel: Yes, has been brought up at the panel before. The reasoning about the barriers appears to be correct, I would also assume the barriers are regarded as "sufficient" because of the low speeds involved. And yes, as far as I know HSCCQ has consulted with CAMS about the issue, and CAMS has agreed that no 3rd party extension is required because of the above reason. GCTMC couldn't completely surround the competition area, hence the need for the extension. But yes, I do see your point, and I do agree with you about how we wander around outside the shed area, however I suppose it does say in the sup regs that we're meant to only drive around at like 5-10k's outside the "test area" so the chances of injury there isn't too high, plus I think they do say that spectators have to stay behind the barriers? Something like that. All in all, I don't really fully understand the 3rd party extension requirement. For instance the khanacross next weekend, we don't need the extension either. Why? Dunno... Oh well, I'm not doing it anyway, I don't have a car to drive :D Quote
demuire Posted June 18, 2004 Report Posted June 18, 2004 Nup, this is a big no-go for this weekend :D HSCCQ offered GCTMC the driver training grounds at Willowbank (or rather, HSCCQ investigated the possibility of using the grounds and got a green light), but looks like they aren't taking up the offer... Quote
99 Posted June 18, 2004 Report Posted June 18, 2004 I'm pleased that the motorkhana panel has discussed the issue - that is an improvement on how I last heard it!! However, I do find this bizarre. By having no 3rd party extension, this effectively means that HSCCQ and CAMS blieve that there is NO medical risk to non-competing third parties at motorkhanas! Isn't the mantra that all motorsport is dangerous?? On the flip side - using the Mt Cotton hillclimb as an example - the track is completely inaccessible to spectators and the closest you get to the action is several metres. The pit lane speed is the same as motorkhanas. In this situation competitors must have 3rd party extension - even though I would consider the risk smaller due to the relative proximity to the competition. I believe that you have a much higher chance of someone getting hurt at a motorkhana and khanacross than most!! With motorkhanas, you can easily have people wonder in and out of the competition area. It does happen quite regularly - maybe once every couple of months? I remember people on motorcycles (having a track day) or those on bicycles just ignoring barriers and going around them into where someone is completing a test. And motorkhanas are NOT low speed compared to a standing still/walking human being. Not to mention that spectators are very close to the motorkhana action - it's great, but some of those poles are awfully close to the shed area - someone could easily come in too hot and misjudge a handbrake turn and plow into that shed area right through those "barriers" (which to me, as as effective in that situation as bunting). Kids regularly sit on those barriers and wonder between there and the timing ladies all of the time. As for the khanacross - that is crazy!!! HSCCQ are notorious for running khanacrosses that are super fast and require 2nd and 3rd gear over really bumpy terrain. Everyone knows that khanacrosses can be just as fast and as long as autocrosses with a start and finish garage. Actually Fook, I think you're right - there is a much stronger argument for 3rd party extension at the khanacross than any other event. Sorry for the long post datgirl Quote
demuire Posted June 18, 2004 Report Posted June 18, 2004 No no, I fully understand your concern, and as I said before - that was the reason that was given when the topic came up before, and I don't think anyone pursued it any further... Mind you half the time a lot of the things they talk about kinda goes "whoosh" around me :D If I remember I might bring it up again at the next panel meeting, it does seem like a fairly good topic to follow up... As for the HSCCQ motorkhana's, I do agree that those barriers are really more for visual effect than anything else, I think they're more there to tell people to stay outside than to keep the cars inside. And yes, people are regularly told not to sit on the barriers, but then again people tend to not listen. And as far as I can remember I don't remember really having anyone wander through the actual "test area", although yes, people do wander through the "competition area". Mind you, we (the competitors) aren't meant to be doing more than 10km/h in the "competition area" apart from when doing the tests in the "test area"... Quote
99 Posted June 18, 2004 Report Posted June 18, 2004 I guess that it needs to be acknowledged that there IS a risk to non competitors first. That admission has been lacking in the past. Some will try and argue that it's too complicated, too hard, we'll alienate those that don't bring it, costs too much etc. But quite simply put - if there is a risk, competitors need 3rd party extension for the same reasons every other event does. I don't think I'll enter the 27 June khanacross for this reason. Redwarf has always said that he thought that HSCCQ khanacrosses were too fast and dangerous. Fun!! but sometimes scary. You can have 14 year old kids without licences fanging at high speed around a bumpy dirt paddock - frightening. anyhoo, I've harped on enough!! :D Quote
99 Posted June 18, 2004 Report Posted June 18, 2004 ps. I might add that I've always had to have 3rd party extension for every other khanacross I've done that's non-HSCCQ. Motorkhanas too - although I've only ever done one or two non-HSCCQ since the extension thing was invented. MGCCQ require it for the ironman motorkhana. It seems to that HSCCQ events are an extension free zone? don't get me wrong, definitely NOT HSCCQ bashing, but these seem to be the circumstances - please correct me if I am wrong. Quote
demuire Posted June 18, 2004 Report Posted June 18, 2004 Re: Extension free zone: Don't know enough to comment on this, the only HSCCQ events I've done with them have been motorkhanas at QR (which are fully "fenced off") I've never done (or even watched) a khanacross, or autocross, or hillclimb, and I've only done a handful of motorkhanas, and the only events I've done that required 3rd party extension (3 in total) have all been touring road events... But yes, might bring up the issue at one of the upcoming meetings... Quote
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