5k engine with no oil pressure

[Tysonkp60]

Hey I’m after some help with a new motor that won’t build any oil pressure. 
 

I am building a starlet kp60 and have done a 5k conversion, the engine was not built by me but everything is brand new. After fixing some issues with the engine and finally trying to start it for the first time I cranked it over with no plugs in to build oil pressure but the light on the dash would not go out 

I took the oil filter off and found that it was completely empty so I figured it must be the oil pump that has failed so I decided to take the oil pump out and test it see what was wrong. From the test that I did it seems to be working fine and picking up oil so I have no idea what could be stopping my engine from getting oil. 
i am hoping that someone on here can help with my issue 

 

thanks, Tyson 

[Banjo]

Hi Tyson,

               Hopefully, whoever assembled your 5K, did it wet, & there are is plenty of oil  on main & conrod bearing surfaces.  As long as the plugs are out, there should not be any damage. Squirt a bit of oil down the spark plug bores to prevent any initial dry running of the piston rings in the bore, whist you are turning it over, & testing.

So you've removed the oil pump & spun it somehow, & it is delivering oil, so lets assume the oil pump is OK.  We can therefore assume, that the over pressure bypass valve has been fitted to the  oil pump correctly. 

Next you need to prove that the oil pump is turning, when the engine is rotated.  Sounds like a silly statement, but the oil pump in a 5K is powered by the camshaft, & there are various keyways & roll pins that lock sprockets & gears to their respective shafts.  The easiest way is is to remove the distributor (that actually drives the oil pump in a 5K), to turn the engine over, & see down the distributor hole in the block, whether, the knurled camshaft gear on the camshaft is turning. If not, then It is probably an issue with the crank or camshaft sprockets on the front of the engine. There are a couple of critical keyways on the camshaft & crankshaft, that may have been accidentally omitted.

If that proves OK, then re-insert the distributor, making sure that the gear on the bottom of the dissy shaft has had it's roll pin inserted. 

Roll Pin

If all that still doesn't turn up something, then you've got me stumped.

Let's know what you find.

Cheers Banjo   

 

 

Edited January 29, 2022 by Banjo
add picture

[Tysonkp60]

Hi so I have turned the engine over to see if that gear on the cam is rotating and it is. 
 

i have added an image of my dizzy as I am unsure what you mean with the roll pin but the dizzy does spin so I am ver stumped 

[Tysonkp60]

Another confusing part is that I have tried to start the engine about a year ago and it had oil pressure then but now for some reason it doesn’t 

the engine didn’t start because I had no compression this lead me on a chase to figure that situation out and after pulling the whole engine to bits it turned out the previous owner had put solid lifters in where they should have been hydraulic but I am still unsure where I have gone wrong for the engine to not be gaining oil pressure 

[Banjo]

Hi Tyson,

                Wish you'd mentioned your engine has had a solid lifter conversion.  If it has not been done properly, that's why you have compression issues. You will need to change push rods, rocker assembly, & possibly the head.

Have a read on these links here on this forum.

https://www.rollaclub.com/wiki/index.php?title=Tech:Engine/K_Series/5K-C/5K_Hydraulic_To_Solid_Lifter_Conversion

Here is another useful link.

http://www.club-k.co.nz/Forums/viewthread.php?tid=14957#pid105004

Hope that helps.

P.S. That dissy still has the original factory pin holding the gear to the dissy shaft.  The only way to remove the factory pin, is to drill it out, & then most people replace with an appropriate sized "roll pin".

Cheers Banjo

Edited January 30, 2022 by Banjo
adding copy

[Tysonkp60]

I think the issue with the lifters were a stuff up by the person who built the engine they were either seized or tampered with to make them solid but after replacing them I now have compression and everything works fine apart from my oil pressure issues 

[Banjo]

Hi Tyson,

                I think I've found your answer

Quote

In the hydraulic lifter 5k block, if non oem lifters are used they may cause an oil loss issue. Original solid lifters used in a hydraulic lifter block will block the hydraulic lifter oil feed holes, so no problem.
If the modified/non oem lifters do not block the oil holes, then the oil feed gallery needs to be plugged to prevent loss of oil pressure.
To do this, there is a grub screw on the hydraulic lifter 5k located in the side of the block in front of the distributor. To plug the oil feed requires inserting a pin under the grub screw to plug the oil channel. (what diameter? can someone finish this statement)?
Some solid lifter K blocks do not have this grub screw.

   

P.S.  By "oil loss issue" they really mean oil pressure loss.

Cheers Banjo         

 

Edited January 30, 2022 by Banjo

[Tysonkp60]

That could just be it because I know the lifer’s aren’t genuine Toyota ones I will definitely check that out tomorrow and get back to you 

cheers 

 

[Tysonkp60]

Quick update the grub screw is stripped so just trying to figure out how to get it out 

 

[Banjo]

Hi Tyson,

                 Is the grub screw brass or steel ?  By stripped, I guess you mean the allen key socket, won't grip to allow you to turn it.  It could well have been fitted with some sealant on the thread.  Try drilling out the centre of the grub screw with a small drill, then increase in drill size, but not that you damage the thread. Once you have a hole right through, squirt some penetration oil in, & let it sit overnight.  Then try to remove it with an appropriate sized "easy-out".

 

Cheers Banjo 

Edited February 7, 2022 by Banjo

[Tysonkp60]

hey mate 

I've decided to take a different route I think, tomorrow I am going to put the old lifters in that caused me to not have compression but still gave me oil pressure, I will see if I can build oil pressure with them in and that will mean it is the lifters that is causing the issue. if not that will mean I have put something together right.

I was very close to buying a 4k today lol and give up on the 5k but I will give it a shot tomorrow 

[Banjo]

Hi Tyson,

                 Interesting, that you are now going to look into the oil filter as being a possible source of your oil pressure issues, there was a couple of good discussion about this subject on this forum.

https://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/73606-addressing-low-oil-pressure/?tab=comments#comment-711455

https://www.rollaclub.com/board/topic/76876-toyota-3k-engine-problem/?tab=comments#comment-723121

Not all oil filters are born equal.  The filter on the K Series engine, is fitted upside down, when compared to most cars.  Filters can appear equal on the outside but there are non return, & bypass valves often inside, depending on the make.

I use an oil filter on my 4K & 5K engines, that looks like a standard Corolla KE filter, but is actually used on a Mercedes Benz car.  I think it is mentioned in the link before.  The filter number has 423 in it.  the Australian version made by Ryco is Z423.

Cheers Banjo

Edited February 7, 2022 by Banjo
adding copy

[Tysonkp60]

hey mate just a wee update after breaking a few things getting my motor together I have changed by lifters back to the old ones ( hydraulic lifters that have been modified to be solid) and when I have these lifters in I am able to build oil pressure just fine so I'm guessing the issue is the new lifters, they aren't genuine Toyota ones I think they are holden ones so I will potentially look into finding some genuine ones or I will go and talk with the shop where I bought the holden ones 

[Banjo]

Hi Tyson,

                 Glad you got to the bottom of that issue. If you still want to go down the solid lifter path, read carefully the links I gave you, earlier in this thread. If the geometry of new lifters; push rods, rocker shaft pedestal height & rocker face sweep coverage is not just right, then you will not get the results you want.

https://www.rollaclub.com/wiki/index.php?title=Tech:Engine/K_Series/5K-C/5K_Hydraulic_To_Solid_Lifter_Conversion

Here are a list of all the Toyota vehicles that use the solid lifter  (13751-61020) , that should fit your 5K motor.

What was the specific reason, you wanted solid lifters for ?

Are you trying to get to a very high rev range.

I've had two 5K engines with hydraulic lifters in them, over the years; & never had an ounce of trouble with them.

Cheers Banjo

 

Edited February 17, 2022 by Banjo

[coln72]

ditto.

Hydros will handle 8000rpm no problems.