Needed 4K water pump pulley (KE55 style)

[billyballer]

Greetings from the West Coast of the United States. I'm currently working on a Austin Healey Sprite project that will be powered by a Corolla 4K engine. It's a long story but essentially the original motor was seized and I was given a 4K in good shape for free. Unfortunately said 4K is missing the water pump pulley. And since this motor only had limited offerings in the US I'm having a hell of a time tracking down a pulley.

Anyone out there able to help?  From what I can tell I need the KE55 style pulley that fits the water pump with the wider snout.

 

Thanks in advance,

Bill

[Banjo]

Hi Bill,

           Welcome aboard !    Do you have the plastic fan blades already ?

Can you post a pic of this "water pump with the wider snout" , so we are not crossing paths here.  Plenty of pulleys here, but would hate to send you one & then find it doesn't suit. 

Do you know what type of 4K engine you have.  I'm presuming that it is a 4K-C, where C stands for "California".  Lots of 4K-Cs here in Australia, as we adopted the same emissions regulations at the time.

Is the transplant very complicated ?  Have you got some pics of the 4K sitting in the engine bay ?  What gearbox, have you got behind it ?

I Googled it, but couldn't find anyone previously on the net that had done a 4K swap.

Found someone who did a Toyota 20R motor swap, so I presume if it fits, then the 4K would also.

http://autoweek.com/article/car-life/toyota-engined-austin-healey-sprite-will-haunt-me-forever

Cheers Banjo

Edited January 26, 2018 by Banjo

[billyballer]

Banjo,

Thanks for the warm welcome.

The Engine is not in the car yet, but it is physically similar in size to the 1275 Sprite motor and also has the intake/exhaust on the same side. Bonus that the 4K is a slant 4 so it will clear the low hood on the Sprite. I'm using the gearbox that came with the motor which is a toyota 4 speed for now. May upgrade to a 5 speed at some point if it isn't too much hassle. The biggest issues with he swap will be a custom drive shaft (plenty of good shops who will do that for cheap here), building custom motor mounts, and adapting a transmission cross-member. I'm a decent welder so I'm not to worried about the mounts and cross member. I honestly would never have gone at this project but was given the car for free, and then the motor for free from another person. It's not a nice enough car to restore back to original so I figured I'd just play around and see if I could make a little budget driver. Sprites only weigh about 1600 lbs. soaking wet so should be good match for the 4K in terms of power.

Maybe you can shed some light on what version 4K I have. The engine ID number (see picture) just says "4k" not "4K-C". It did not come with any fan, but I'm planning on running an electric fan setup.

Take a peak at the pictures and see what you think. Sorry in advance the pictures aren't great and the 4K is shoved up against a 5.0L Ford motor which is destined for another project (yeah I'm that guy).

 

[Banjo]

Hi Bill,

             Thanks for the pics.  Gives us a clear idea.   The letter after the 4K, never appears in the engine S/N on the block.  It is usually on a sticker attached to the side of the rocker cover, just above no: 4 spark plug.  From your pics, looks like that sticker has long since gone.

I don't know if it is an optical illusion, but it appears that the point the gear stick comes out of the gearbox rear extension, is much further back than normal, for a 4 speed.  Have you worked out where it will "appear" on the Healey's floor tunnel ?  What is the measurement between the centre point of the gear stick  pivot ball, to the front edge of the bell housing mating point to the block ? 

I'll go & measure a 4 speed box I've got on the garage floor, & post it here.  Our 5 speed gearboxes, had the gear stick further back.

The water pump pulley I have will fit your pump OK.  I'll go & take a pic, & post here with hole dimensions.  Can't imagine they would be different in the USA, but you never know.

Cheers Banjo

 

 

 

.

[Banjo]

OK, the gearbox measurement mentioned above is 55cm or 21.5 inches.  the water pump snout looks pretty much the same.  Here are a few pics.

 

 

 

 

 

The measurement of the gearbox, mentioned above, on our 4 speed is 55cm, or 21.5 inches approx.

 

Cheers Banjo

 

 

 

 

Edited January 27, 2018 by Banjo

[billyballer]

I'll get some measurements tomorrow on the tranny and also on the water pump center (snout) diameter. 

Haven't done any length measurements on the transmission. Only the eye ball test 

Thanks!

Bill

[Banjo]

Hi Bill, 

            Have compared the pics of your water pump & mounting boss, with my posted ones, & they appear to be different.

The water pump shaft on our water pump is 16mm in dia., as is the centre hole of the pulley.  The four (4) mounting holes for the pulley are each 31mm apart. C/P to C/P.

The distance between the front face of the mounting boss & the centre line of the fan belt is 36.5mm.

The pulley, weighs 500g, so packed would be about 1kg.  If it it is suitable, let me know, give me your full name & address details, & I will post it over.

Cheers Banjo

Edited January 27, 2018 by Banjo

[parrot]

My stepfather put a 1600cc Mitsubishi Saturn engine in a Midget.  A gear went in the original gearbox, and it was cheaper to swap in the Galant engine rather than get the gear fixed.

Goes like the clappers

[Banjo]

Hi Pete,

               I liked the bug eye Sprite, as when you  remove the whole front grill/guards/bonnet piece, you have easy access to the engine bay.

Cheers Banjo

[ke70dave]

One of these days ill have a sprite. Damn cool cars. 

[billyballer]

Banjo,

Appears you're right. Different pulleys fro sure. The water pump bolt patterns even look a little different.

My shaft diameter where the pulley mounts is 24mm.

My transmission distance (shifter to end of the bell housing) is also 21.5" and I can only seem to find 4 forward gears so I'm pretty sure its a 4 speed.

I've attached a few more pictures.

Any ideas what year they switched water pumps? Or which version I have?

 

[Banjo]

Hi Bill,

           On another thread here, I've been looking at the various water pumps, with their different inlet & outlet configurations; to find one suitable for a mod, I want to carry out for the return coolant circuit, from the back of the head.  In that research, I came across several different K series pumps; & surprise, surprise, some of them had a different water pump pulley, with different (bigger) centre hole diameter, & a different spacing for the four attachment bolts.  The pictures appear to indicate, that the pulley, is a lot flatter, than the standard "conical" one.  Overall, the O.D. appears to be very similar. This lines up with your description, as my standard pump has a 16mm centre hole, whereas, yours is 24mm. 

Apparently, these were fitted primarily, to K engines that had the larger plastic fans, with a clutch in them.  These apparently, were fitted, in the main, to 5K engines here in Australia, which Toyota used in commercial vehicles, like vans, & forklifts etc.

I have managed to find one here in Brisbane, & I'm going to catch up with this guy this afternoon, so may soon have one in my hand, that I can photograph for you, & measure up accurately, to see if it suits your 4K application.

Stay tuned !

Cheers Banjo

 

Edited January 29, 2018 by Banjo

[billyballer]

Fantastic Banjo! 

Really appreciate you going the extra mile on this one. 

Bill

[billyballer]

So after lots of time on the internet last night I think I've determined that I have a 4K motor fitted with a 3k water pump. After some inquiry to the previous owner I determined it had been powering. 1972 corolla in its previous life. So I guess I need a 3k water pump pulley. 

Bill

[Banjo]

Hi Bill,

          Managed to get hold of this elusive pulley late yesterday, but it was too dark to take some pics last night, when I got home.

Here are a few shots of the pulley, some along side the standard, & most common conical one, here in Australia.

 Picture no: 4 clearly shows they are both have the same O.D.   Picture no: 3 shows how this pulley is "shallower" than the standard conical one, by about 8mm.

The remaining pics show that the centre mounting/alignment hole is much bigger, than our standard 16mm one, but at 32mm, is greater than the 24mm on the mounting boss you have there on your 4K engine.  The four (4) off 6mm bolt holes, are spaced 40mm apart, unlike the conical one, where they are only 31mm apart.

The pressed on mounting boss on your water pump, is different, in that it has a shoulder on it, to centre the pulley, where the standard conical one, just uses the 16mm dia. water pump shaft.

The boss is just pressed on, so I guess it wouldn't be too hard to align the centre of the belt groove, with the crankshaft & alternator pulleys, if needed, by repositioning it, as your shaft appears to have plenty of length.

So I'm not sure whether you can use either of the pulleys I have here.

Maybe, you can just buy another new aftermarket 4K water pump, on line, as they don't seem to be too expensive, & see what size mounting boss it comes with.

Let me know, if I can assist any further.

Cheers Banjo

 

 

Edited January 30, 2018 by Banjo