Clutch Engagement Problem

[ronm]

Hi! I'm new here but let me start with a problem. haha.

 

Ke30

3k engine

 

I replaced the clutch because it was slipping. After a few weeks i noticed i had to adjust the tensioner because it engages at the floor. Literally.

 

Now i have the tensioner at its last ring and i am having a hard time shifting and ive been grinding the gears when i shift unless i kick in the clutch.

 

Any ideas?

[B.L.Z.BUB]

Stretched cable probably. You can adjust it past the last ring at the firewall, just use a hose clamp.

[Banjo]

Hi Ron,

Welcome aboard ! Did you only replace the drive friction plate, or did you do the whole clutch bit, and replace pressure plate & throw-out bearing as well ? Did you by any chance have the flywheel face skimmed ?

 

Did you replace the clutch cable ? Some of the aftermarket ones, available on-line, are a little longer that the original Toyota one.

 

Are there any unusal noises associated with the use of the clutch, that weren't there previously ?

 

Give us a bitmore detail, and we'll see if we can help you sort it out.

 

Cheers Banjo

[ronm]

Thank you for the response!

 

I am thinking of replacing the cable... I just replaced the clutch disk and nothing else.

 

When i step on the clutch it does disengage and let the engine idle but i need to put more effort to get it into gear. I hope that makes sense.

[altezzaclub]

I think its pretty common- I have a 10mm plastic spacer behind that washer at the firewall, partly to get the clutch grip where I want it, and partly because the little grooves in the alloy casing get smashed and then the circlip doesn't grip. I've used a hose-clamp, as blzbub suggested. Is the lower circlip at the bottom of the block in correctly?

 

You can just grab the cable under the bonnet and pull it away from the firewall to see how much freeplay you have. Mine is about 8mm.

[ronm]

Ive been playing around and removed the glove box to see whats going on there. I've noticed that its pulling right as far as i can observe until the firewall. Then i observed the cable play on the end right towards the clutch.

 

Looks like it will "pull" 2/4 then would stop eventhough we are continously pressing on the clutch then would start engaging at about 3/4.

 

Sorry but can't think of better explanation than that. Looks like the cable is indeed the problem.

 

I'll try to have it replaced tomorrow.

[altezzaclub]

Take a large steel nut with a hole large enough to fit over the outer cable and cut a few mm out of its wall. The you can slip the nut over the cable wire and put the outer cable though it. That will act as a spacer between the firewall fitting and the cable circlip.

 

If that spacing changes the clutch pickup correctly you know the cable is too long.

 

The terrible option is that something has slipped off inside the bell housing, the thrust bearing or its arm being the most likely.

[lexsmaz]

Sorry but your last explanation lost me, a test to do to see if it's the cable or possibly the pressure plate diaphragm is to drive down the road under say light acceleration & keep your foot on the accelerator & at the same time you put your foot on the clutch & start to slowly push it towards the floor when does the clutch disengage as in start to slip, if it starts to slip as in rev a bit at a fairly high pedal position it sounds like the diaphragm is no good & you will need to change out the complete clutch, if it starts to slip half way down on the clutch pedal travel or even further the clutch cable is most likely the cause ..

 

Just for your future information, its not recommended to just change the clutch disc as the pressure plate can crack after time & cause issues like you are having & also the thrust bearing definitely wears out too ..

Edited January 26, 2015 by lexsmaz

[ronm]

Sorry but your last explanation lost me, a test to do to see if it's the cable or possibly the pressure plate diaphragm is to drive down the road under say light acceleration & keep your foot on the accelerator & at the same time you put your foot on the clutch & start to slowly push it towards the floor when does the clutch disengage as in start to slip, if it starts to slip as in rev a bit at a fairly high pedal position it sounds like the diaphragm is no good & you will need to change out the complete clutch, if it starts to slip half way down on the clutch pedal travel or even further the clutch cable is most likely the cause ..

 

Just for your future information, its not recommended to just change the clutch disc as the pressure plate can crack after time & cause issues like you are having & also the thrust bearing definitely wears out too ..

 

that basically describes what is happening, haven't replaced the cables yet since weather is not cooperating. thanks man!

[altezzaclub]

Sorry, it was hard to describe in words-

 

Here is where you slice the side of a large nut, and then it forms a spacer so you can adjust the cable more.

[ronm]

Sorry, it was hard to describe in words-

 

Here is where you slice the side of a large nut, and then it forms a spacer so you can adjust the cable more.

Sorry, it was hard to describe in words-

 

Here is where you slice the side of a large nut, and then it forms a spacer so you can adjust the cable more.

 

this looks like a great idea! time to get the dremmel back in action. i'll do this. thank you!

[Banjo]

The clutch cable is a very simple mechanical device, but because it transmits mechanical force in a "U" shape configuration, it is imperative that it contributes little friction, or the binding effect inside the cable can produce an effect similar to what you describe.

 

The original Toyota cables had a Teflon sleeve over the clutch cabe wire. Many after market KE clutch cables do not have the plastic sleeve. Some later KE55s had a bracket off the master cylinder, to hold the cable in place on the bend, to assist with the cable not moving around under force.

 

One of the simplest fixes is to remove the cable from the car altogether. You can then feel if there is any friction on the inside of the cable. If you hold the outer clutch cable sheath in a vice vertically, and work the inner cable up & down by hand, whilst dripping oil down the inside of the cable, until it eventually comes out the bottom, the results can be quite dramatic. All of a sudden the cable will feel very free, and when you put it back in the car, it works just like a new one. Be patient though. It can take 10-15 mins to work the cable, whilst dripping in oil, to get the oil to lubricate the entire inner length of the cable.

 

Same technique can be used on rear brake cables.

 

Cheers Banjo

Edited January 28, 2015 by Banjo

[ronm]

The clutch cable is a very simple mechanical device, but because it transmits mechanical force in a "U" shape configuration, it is imperative that it contributes little friction, or the binding effect inside the cable can produce an effect similar to what you describe.

 

The original Toyota cables had a Teflon sleeve over the clutch cabe wire. Many after market KE clutch cables do not have the plastic sleeve. Some later KE55s had a bracket off the master cylinder, to hold the cable in place on the bend, to assist with the cable not moving around under force.

 

One of the simplest fixes is to remove the cable from the car altogether. You can then feel if there is any friction on the inside of the cable. If you hold the outer clutch cable sheath in a vice vertically, and work the inner cable up & down by hand, whilst dripping oil down the inside of the cable, until it eventually comes out the bottom, the results can be quite dramatic. All of a sudden the cable will feel very free, and when you put it back in the car, it works just like a new one. Be patient though. It can take 10-15 mins to work the cable, whilst dripping in oil, to get the oil to lubricate the entire inner length of the cable.

 

Same technique can be used on rear brake cables.

 

Cheers Banjo

The clutch cable is a very simple mechanical device, but because it transmits mechanical force in a "U" shape configuration, it is imperative that it contributes little friction, or the binding effect inside the cable can produce an effect similar to what you describe.

 

The original Toyota cables had a Teflon sleeve over the clutch cabe wire. Many after market KE clutch cables do not have the plastic sleeve. Some later KE55s had a bracket off the master cylinder, to hold the cable in place on the bend, to assist with the cable not moving around under force.

 

One of the simplest fixes is to remove the cable from the car altogether. You can then feel if there is any friction on the inside of the cable. If you hold the outer clutch cable sheath in a vice vertically, and work the inner cable up & down by hand, whilst dripping oil down the inside of the cable, until it eventually comes out the bottom, the results can be quite dramatic. All of a sudden the cable will feel very free, and when you put it back in the car, it works just like a new one. Be patient though. It can take 10-15 mins to work the cable, whilst dripping in oil, to get the oil to lubricate the entire inner length of the cable.

 

Same technique can be used on rear brake cables.

 

Cheers Banjo

 

can't seem to find a clutch cable of the right length. I am contemplating of doing or upgrading to hyraulic.

 

Thanks Banjo!

[lexsmaz]

Don't over complicate the issue at the moment, just put the spacer in as has been mentioned & test the clutch then as I'm guessing it could be an issue with the clutch diaphragm, but if putting the spacer in fixes it then leave it in or do something then, but big job to put a hydraulic system on it & you need to mount the slave cylinder to the gearbox too which is probably going to be the biggest issue & also redesign the end of the clutch fork to take a push rod from the slave cylinder, unless there are compatible gearboxes out there ..

Edited February 3, 2015 by lexsmaz

[altezzaclub]

you need to mount the slave cylinder to the gearbox too

Yep, I can see that being quite difficult. It will need to push where the cable pulls and be mounted paralell to the line of action of the cable. I don't think the bell-housing has a flat surface for that.

 

Stick with the cable if you can.