Upgrade Front Suspension Ke 30 Any Ideas

[Thrash em]

I recently bought my first corolla a ke 30, I put in a 18rgu I had lying around in it, its just a paddock bomb but my friends and I take it pretty seriously. I have never worked with these corollas and I was hoping for some cheap ideas to upgrade the front suspension as the 18rgu is a lot heavier. Can I just fit some later model struts if so what fits easily

Also some ideas on how to get some camber

As I said it is only a paddock bomb so I want to spend as little money as possible

[ke70dave]

Paddock basher hey.

 

Cut the springs?

Edited April 3, 2014 by ke70dave

[altezzaclub]

Sigma lower control arms for camber. You could PM Insanity and see if you can buy the pair off the rally celica in my signature.

 

I'd expect Celica struts to fit too, but you'll have to learn how to calculate spring rates to really find something to lift the nose. Either modify wet struts (or use the most knackered old inserts you can find) to let the nose come back up quickly (the opposite of road shocks) or you'll have it diving into the ground over bumps.

[coln72]

drain oil from struts and refill with thicker oil

measure the internal and external diameter of the coils and head of to the wreckers and find something from a bigger car that is similar. ex. I used cut down HZ Kingswood V8 springs in my KE20 struts.

[Thrash em]

Paddock basher hey.

 

Cut the springs?

 

The height is ok just seems very bouncy

[Thrash em]

Sigma lower control arms for camber. You could PM Insanity and see if you can buy the pair off the rally celica in my signature.

 

I'd expect Celica struts to fit too, but you'll have to learn how to calculate spring rates to really find something to lift the nose. Either modify wet struts (or use the most knackered old inserts you can find) to let the nose come back up quickly (the opposite of road shocks) or you'll have it diving into the ground over bumps.

 

Thanks one thing I was wondering though with the longer sigma lower control arms, wouldn't that be bending the strut or top plate slightly

[Thrash em]

So I think the struts are proberbly original and nackered and thought instead of paying $250-300 on new struts and then still have to get springs, I thought if there was a later model strut that was better and fitted easy that I can get from a car being wrecked cheap,

 

If not I might try changing the oil and heavier springs

 

 

[Thrash em]

drain oil from struts and refill with thicker oil

measure the internal and external diameter of the coils and head of to the wreckers and find something from a bigger car that is similar. ex. I used cut down HZ Kingswood V8 springs in my KE20 struts.

 

Thanks

didn't know you could chage the oil in them, is it easy done and would you know what type of oil I would use

[Thrash em]

 

 

Thanks one thing I was wondering though with the longer sigma lower control arms, wouldn't that be bending the strut or top plate slightly

 

Or is it not enough to worry about

[filfrederick]

Or is it not enough to worry about

there is a spherical bearing or a rubber bush in the top of the strut that allows for this sort of movement. so nothing to worry about.

[altezzaclub]

didn't know you could chage the oil in them, is it easy done and would you know what type of oil I would use

 

Only if they're original wet struts and not inserts.

 

Pull them apart and examine the footvalve on the bottom of the piston. Take a shim washer out from the side that allows extention, ie when the car's nose goes upwards. Alternatively you could make the holes that allow oil down through the valve bigger, so the shaft rises easier.

 

There is special shock absorber oil available, it has a low viscosity but most importantly a high viscosity index, which shows it holds that viscosity over a wide temperature range. You can get 4 or 5 viscosities. If you use a low Vi oil they shocks start off good then go soft as they heat up.

[Thrash em]

 

there is a spherical bearing or a rubber bush in the top of the strut that allows for this sort of movement. so nothing to worry about.

 

Awesome i'll do that thanks very much

[love ke70]

Just reading through this, the complaint seems to be that its too bouncy.

and altezzaclub you seem to be suggesting to loosen the front up more.

wont this make the problem worse not better?

I understand the point you are making about wanting the rebound to be soft, but I am not sure if what you are suggesting is going to do what the OP wants?

 

Cheers, Andy

[Thrash em]

 

 

Only if they're original wet struts and not inserts.

 

Pull them apart and examine the footvalve on the bottom of the piston. Take a shim washer out from the side that allows extention, ie when the car's nose goes upwards. Alternatively you could make the holes that allow oil down through the valve bigger, so the shaft rises easier.

 

There is special shock absorber oil available, it has a low viscosity but most importantly a high viscosity index, which shows it holds that viscosity over a wide temperature range. You can get 4 or 5 viscosities. If you use a low Vi oil they shocks start off good then go soft as they heat up.

 

Thanks for the info

but I am a bit confused Height seems ok could come up a bit but was concerned about the way it bounces, so it seems to come up ok but seems to bounce a bit.

I haven't drove the car yet just from pushing on it

 

And was concerned about it bottoming out from the extra weight of the 18rgu

 

You mentioned using shocks that are clapped out, thats what i have so maybe I should just get some heavier springs and try it?

 

I appreciate your time and opinion you know a lot more than me about this

 

Someone else mentioned you can fit ae86 struts too, but from what you mentioned normal road shocks are not good for rallying so I presume this wouldnt help without changing the shocks anyway.

 

Also do you think it is worth while changing my rear shocks if so what would you recommend

 

Thanks Mick

[altezzaclub]

If it were a rally car you'd aim for-

 

-the shock to sit about 2/3 out of the strut when parked. This means it has twice as much room to go down as go up. You alter that with spring length or moving the spring base up the strut. So find a stiffer/longer spring or re-weld the spring seat higher up.

 

-the spring to be stiff enough to just have the coils hitting each other in the biggest bump you hit. So after a rally I take a look at our nice yellow springs and see if we are coil-binding more than the middle three coils. Usually the dirt is marked from the coils touching and that is just fine.

 

-The front shocks to be stiffer going down than up. This is the hard one to get, as road shocks work the other way around- they pull the car down and hold it down to stop roll/keep a low center of gravity. You want them to resist the car going down and move it back up quickly.

 

Google 'shock foot valve' and learn about them. The movement you feel when you bounce on the car is done by tiny castellations in the outside of the valve ring, they are used to bleed oil in/out when the car rolls in corners. The main valve doesn't open then, that happens when the weight of the car lands on the shock from a bump.

 

If the car bounces up/down too much you need the shock stiffer in that direction, so make a hole smaller or block it off with epoxy, or stiffen the flexible steel valves with a washer. Change to a thicker oil to stiffen both up and down damping. This is the black art of custom suspension tuning you are getting into, no-one knows all the answers...

 

Rear shocks & springs need to be soft going down so the car squats and transfers weight to the rear tyres for traction. Same problem, if the springs coil-bind more than a couple of coils or the diff hits the exhaust/body you'll have to raise the car or stiffen the shocks. The Celica was just right by the time we finished, it barely hit the exhaust but squatted right down onto the soft bump stops we had. You want it as soft as you can drive it without it bouncing around. Rear shocks are all cartridges, so you can't adjust them.

 

Take the front sway off and try it, it will eliminate some of the understeer but remember it will have more of a tendency to tuck the front outside wheel under and roll.

 

Have you welded the diff? Don't weld the teeth/gears together, just fill opposing teeth with weld so two gears rotate until a pair of teeth hit a weld, and then the gears can rotate back again. This stops the terrible weldy understeer most welded diffs have.