Ke-30/55 Brake Upgrade

[Banjo]

Well, I determined that the exact preload in the front coil springs is really a secondary issue, and that the real issue is ensuring that there is clearance between the lower spring perch on the strut, & the tyre & wheel you are using. I went and assembled an original KE70 strut & spring, and measured the free length & compressed length of the standard spring. The difference, or preload, in these two dimensions was exactly 90mm. I then temporarily fitted the lower KE70 perch in a position on the RA65 strut, so that it cleared the tyre OK. I then fitted the KE70 spring compressed, and low & behold, the preload compression was exactly 90 mm. This shouldn't have been any surprise, as the KE70 & Celica RA65 strut are exactly the same length.

 

So just awaiting King Springs to deliver two new KE70 standard springs in the X5K coil sping material to finish it off. I'll post some pictures as soon as they are all together.

 

Cheers Banjo

Edited February 13, 2013 by Banjo

[NinjaMekanik]

Hey Banjo, any more progress on this one?

[bruce]

Hi Banjo, did everything work out for you in the end?

[Banjo]

Hi Bruce,

                Has been a great mod, &worked reliably & well ever since it was first installed.   It hard to remember how poor the original Rolla brakes were, after modifying as I described.

The most important part is to fit a larger master cylinder, to get all the extra needed brake fluid into the larger caliper pots !  I used a MC from a Pajero, & it fits perfectly; same studs, no need to modify pipe connection either.

Cheers Banjo

[bruce]

OK, I'm looking into widening the bolt spacing on the KE30 steering knuckles out to 90mm to bolt them to the RA60 struts. Thinking of either welding and re-drilling them, or add inserts and put the locating dowels in. What camber did you end up with?

Did you use the Pajero master cylinder with a 1" bore?

At the moment I'm running a 0.75" 75-series Tildon master cylinder without a vacuum booster, along with RX4 calipers/slotted KE30 rotors. Needed space with the 3TC with twin carbs.

[Taz_Rx]

Wondered if you ever used those

[Banjo]

Hi Bruce,

Quote

Did you use the Pajero master cylinder with a 1" bore?

Yes, that is what I used.  Very easy mod.  Would loved to have found a new Toyota HiLux or Landcruiser one, that fitted as easily, but the price, availability, & ease of changeover made it an easy decision.  I think the only adjustment was the adjustable big pin, between MC & Vacuum Brake Booster.

Ah them knuckles !  Off memory, they were only out by a couple of millimeters. I'm sure I did a post on Rollaclub.  Details are earlier in this thread.

Off memory, I opened up one of the bolt holes & relocated the dowelling.  I know it was very easy, using a cylinderical carbine cutter on a hand drill.

Off memory I discovered there were a number of different KPI angles on the various 50mm dia. Toyota struts, & the Celica RA65 struts I obtained were different in the wrong direction. I remember at the time, that there those on here, advising me not to use RA65 struts, as they had obtained +ve camber as a result. 

I had gone too far with the mod, so pushed on, & finished up with 0 deg camber on one side & 0.3 deg +ve camber on the other.  I finished up getting some Techno Toy Tuning camber top adjusters, from the USA, and had they professionally set with 0.6 deg -ve camber on both sides.  Could have gone to about 0.75 deg -ve, but was happy with the 0.6 deg -ve.  I'm only using it as a daily drive, so certainly did not want to go beyond 1.0 deg -ve.

Cheers Banjo

 

 

Edited July 27, 2018 by Banjo

[bruce]

On 7/20/2018 at 8:50 PM, Taz_Rx said:

Wondered if you ever used those

Yeah, the rx4 calipers have been good for a while now. I did take some photos of the setup, have to find them. Just needed new brake hoses to the calipers going from Toyota to Mazda, and drill out the caliper mounting holes on the strut (same bolt spacing). I had to file a bit of material from the calipers to clear the hub.

[bruce]

On 7/21/2018 at 11:30 AM, Banjo said:

Hi Bruce,

Yes, that is what I used.  Very easy mod.  Would loved to have found a new Toyota HiLux or Landcruiser one, that fitted as easily, by the price, availability, & ease of changeover made it an easy decision.  I think the only adjustment was the adjustable big pin, between MC & Vacuum Brake Booster.

Ah them knuckles !  Off memory, they were only out by a couple of millimeters. I'm sure I did a post on Rollaclub.  Details are earlier in this thread.

Off memory, I opened up one of the bolt holes & relocated the dowelling.  I know it was very easy, using a cylinderical carbine cutter on a hand drill.

Off memory I discovered there were a number of different KPI angles on the various 50mm dia. Toyota struts, & the Celica RA65 struts I obtained were different in the wrong direction. I remember at the time, that there those on here, advising me not to use RA65 struts, as they had obtained +ve camber as a result. 

I had gone too far with the mod, so pushed on, & finished up with 0 deg camber on one side & 0.3 deg +ve camber on the other.  I finished up getting some ToyoTech camber top adjusters, from the USA, and had they professionally set with 0.6 deg -ve camber on both sides.  Could have gone to about 0.75 deg -ve, but was happy with the 0.6 deg -ve.  I'm only using it as a daily drive, so certainly did not want to go beyond 1.0 deg -ve.

Cheers Banjo

 

 

 

I got some T3 KE30 adjustable camber tops as well. Did you end up lowering the suspension at the front with lower springs or coilovers?

[Banjo]

Hi Bruce,

Quote

Did you end up lowering the suspension at the front with lower springs or coilovers?

                No, I never wanted to lower it too much, as it limits me where I can go.   I have some Old Skool Delta 14" mags on her, & they just (I mean just) clear the large Cressida rotors & calipers I have fitted.  However, the standard KE70 King Springs I fitted, were made from King Springs newer material, which results in a much stiffer spring.  When I first dropped her to the ground, she sat up in the front.  I drove it around for a month or so, thinking the springs might "settle", but no such luck.   I finished up taking about a full coil turn from them, to get the ride height to match the rear.  Perfect now !   It gives a firm ride in the front, assisted by the 22mm dia. sway bar.  Bit harsh on rougher roads, but corners, like it is on rails !  The full coil turn removal, still kept the coil spring captive, with air under the wheel.

From all I've learn't whilst doing my front end, I'd like to have another go at it, with a different approach.  I've always believed that there is something basically wrong with the whole McPherson strut design/geometery, if it is not just right.  There appears to be a lot of "chat" on the net to support that.  When I was young, I owned a "Harry Potter" Ford 105 Anglia, which I drove all over Australia, when I just got a licence. It had an inherent issue, where the front end would get a violent "shimmy" up, at a particular/exact speed.  No end of balancing & wheel alignment could ever fix it.  I just used to drive through that speed range quickly.

I'll take some pics of the ride height later today, to show you what I finished up with, & add them here.

Cheers Banjo

 

 

 

 

Edited July 25, 2018 by Banjo

[bruce]

Yeah I've replaced most of the bushes, installed idler arm, tide rod ends, kings springs, camber tops, and new tyres and rims with wheel balance and alignment and still got the shimmy at 60-70Km/hr. What's next is new shocks, bearings, front swaybar bushes and lower ball joints. Hopefully it will go away.

Are you going to improve on the McPherson strut design, or tackle a double wishbone suspension conversion?

[Banjo]

Hi Bruce,

                 Sorry about the delay, but I misplaced my camera.   Here is a pic, which gives you a good look at the ride height I finished up with, after the front end mods I carried out, described in this thread..

Cheers Banjo

[bruce]

I'm doing some test fitting of RA60 struts converted to coilovers.

Top photo is with stock KE30 struts and lowered King springs. Only lowered by ~20mm.  Space between the top of the tyre and the top of the wheel arch is around 50mm. 

Bottom photo is RA60 struts cut 40mm, with Otomoto HSD coilover sleeve kit, and KYB front MR2 shocks. Wind down to lowest setting.

I also had the issue of putting the RA60 strut onto the lower ball joint thread. So I got around it by installing RCAs (50mm), printed in PETG filament at 30% infill for test fitting.

Edited August 20, 2020 by bruce