Sub 1190Cc Toyota Engine Boosted For U2Lt Ip Racing

[diegoh]

small capacity turbo versus NA in the U2LT Improved production = small cap and boost FTW!

 

Just theoretically speaking but looking at the datsun guys... one has broken the long standing winton record with a well setup but otherwise stock internal A12 pushrod engine, its mainly in the manifolding, tune e85 and lightweightness of the 1200 coupe body with well setup suspension but can any toyota engine be boosted with less but close to 1190cc & make close to 200hp atw reliably on 18psi?

Thats what this little stock internal A12 makes but with arp rod bolts, double valve springs and different ground camshaft but otherwise stock cast pistons and factory conrods, crank stock a15 head etc. The owner like many diehard datto A series guys are bedazzled by the cheap donks performance compared to later 16v twin cam technology.

 

 

Well so far I only found 2 engines better than the K series that could come close

 

 

The E1 64mm stroke crankshaft in a 4EFTE for 1.101cc but still shy of 89 cc

so would need 4mm extra stroke to make 1170cc

 

or

 

3NRFE with offset ground destroked crank by 0.5mm to achieve from 1197cc ->1189cc

yet no turbo aftermarket support like the 4EFTE has.

 

The other issue is a RWD gearbox and light body to match the minimalist 1200.

 

Its quite challenge in theory but could it be successful :hmm:

[towe001]

yet no turbo aftermarket support like the 4EFTE has.

 

The other issue is a RWD gearbox and light body to match the minimalist 1200.

4e-f runs the same fwd gearbox as the 4a motors.

[white_sandshoe]

stock internal A12 pushrod engine, its mainly in the manifolding, tune e85 and lightweightness of the 1200 coupe body with well setup suspension but can any toyota engine be boosted with less but close to 1190cc & make close to 200hp atw reliably on 18psi?

 

Its quite challenge in theory but could it be successful

 

See where this is falling down? The assumption that the little A12 isn't tearing through those stock components like a 22 year old toolie on a double does of Viagra tears through 17 year old hotties at schoolies...

 

Race engines push the boundaries of what is considered reliable for street use. Try making it to a 100,000 km service in any engine with triple the horsepower on standard internals.

 

Sure, you could do exactly the same thing, and make the same power out of a 3K... Ethanol will be a bit kinder on it than running ULP, slap a 4K head on it to drop compression, and port and polish while you're there, lumpy, but well thought out cam (don't just chuck in the biggest cam you can find... little more duration, but bunch more lift is the way to go) pump in your 18psi, and reap the rewards... BUT...

 

It will be needing far more regular servicing than a street engine, and will break far more regularly. Fortunately, it's a K engine... how much is a stock 3K worth these days??? People are giving the darn things away free a lot of the time! Just make sure you keep your top end well serviced, and don't worry about chewing through blocks, pistons and rods... So long as your head stays tight, the bottom end is disposable. That, and do what the big boys do... have spare engines to swap over the racing weekend.

 

Just talking about that sorta makes me want to give it a go... 200hp turbo 3K engined KE15 anyone?

[Hiro Protagonist]

4e-f runs the same fwd gearbox as the 4a motors.

 

But different bellhousing and bolt pattern if I recall correctly...

[irokin]

3NRFE with offset ground destroked crank by 0.5mm to achieve from 1197cc ->1189cc

 

I don't think that's necessary. And I doubt the scrutineer would believe you anyway.

 

 

16.2 Capacity tolerance: Vehicle classification is based on the nominal capacity stated by the entrant on the

entry form. A vehicle will remain eligible for the nominated class provided the actual capacity does not exceed

the class capacity limit by more than 2%.

 

1197 * 1.7 = 2034.9cc

 

2000cc + 2% = 2040cc

 

You might need to seek clarification on what "actual capacity" means. Swept volume or effective capacity? I don't see why it would mean swept volume, almost everything else is based on effective capacity.

 

Buuuut that's all pointless anyway because the engines probably not eligible.

 

 

Just talking about that sorta makes me want to give it a go... 200hp turbo 3K engined KE15 anyone?

 

Hope you have a good source for depleted uranium so you can make the 1095kg minimum weight. The minimum weights are quite generous. Pick something with good suspension rather than light weight. My silvia's minimum weight is achievable in almost full trim (what you'd remove to fit the cage would be enough).

[white_sandshoe]

You might need to seek clarification on what "actual capacity" means. Swept volume or effective capacity? I don't see why it would mean swept volume, almost everything else is based on effective capacity.

 

Buuuut that's all pointless anyway because the engines probably not eligible.

 

Clarification was sought from the 2012 CAMS Manual of Motorsport... Swept volume it is...

 

Also, 3NR IS eligible, in that it is the same engine type (being a inline 4 made by the same manufacturer) Though I don't think it's such a crash-hot proposition as it'd be a pain in the ass to fit, plus, as you've stated, too much hassle to get into the sub-2L bracket.

 

Hope you have a good source for depleted uranium so you can make the 1095kg minimum weight. The minimum weights are quite generous. Pick something with good suspension rather than light weight. My silvia's minimum weight is achievable in almost full trim (what you'd remove to fit the cage would be enough).

 

Ummm... WHAT minimum weight? KE15 is an early model car, in that it's made before 1986, so weight restrictions don't apply.

 

As stated in the 2012 Manual of Motorsport , the weight restrictions are only applicable to vehicles that are considered Late Model (which, I believe, is why the part about weight restrictions was put under section 17, titled Late Model) meaning I can quite happily race with my KE15 with turboed 3K, or 4K, or any other 4 cyl toyota engine I please, and not have any concern about weight... I'm pretty sure I read all that correctly, but feel free to correct me.

I hope this enlightenment doesn't make you re-think racing with a dirty datsun... :doh:

 

Only limiting factor other than a 7" tire, is the 36mm restrictor that must be placed in the inlet before the turbo... I wonder if that will limit a turbo 3K to under 200hp?

Edited May 1, 2012 by white_sandshoe

[irokin]

Clarification was sought from the 2012 CAMS Manual of Motorsport... Swept volume it is...

 

Swept.. lame.

 

 

Ummm... WHAT minimum weight? KE15 is an early model car, in that it's made before 1986, so weight restrictions don't apply.

 

Ah yep, quite right. I've only ever read the regs with late model in mind.

[diegoh]

25kg lighter than 5k and flows the right way too :)

 

 

The 3NR its heaps lighter and better start, datto is about 750kg so an imported startlet is its only match.

 

Id love a destroked 4age with modded destroked 2A crankshaft and worked 7afe head.

65mm destroked from 71.4mm is possible using custom conrods but not sure the 2A

crankshaft would like to spin high rpm if its a cast baby with lack of full counterweights.

Edited May 1, 2012 by diegoh

[white_sandshoe]

Bahahahaha!

I'm loving the destroked 15,000rpm 4AG screamer idea. I wonder how much block decking could be done for that short stroke to keep pretty rod/stroke ratios? Only reason for chasing 200hp with a 3k is bragging rights, and the look of embarrassment when others find out they got thrashed by a 1.2L non-crossflow pushrod engine. :P

 

Starlet wouldn't be eligible though, sad to say... It's got to be a model available via dealer network locally. (there are other criteria, but an imported starlet doesn't fit any of them :( )

[Hiro Protagonist]

Surprised no-one has mentioned the Fastest Little Sports Car in Utah. SW20 w/ 4AGE 20V destroked down to 1.0L, 45psi of boost and 10,000rpm for around 450HP :D

Edited May 1, 2012 by Hiro Protagonist

[towe001]

Questions -

• Does the car in question have to be a toyota with the toyota motor ?
  
• Does the car in question have to be a full body vehicle with a tin roof ?
  
• How far (or by how much) are you allowed to modify the vehicle in question ?
  

Cause i'm thinking a moke thats been modified to rwd.

 

And to keep the weight down, a roll cage and a canvas roof.....

Hey

hey, it'll never be top heavy.

It's sub 500kg

and it'll be in the under '86 bracket

[white_sandshoe]

its got to be the same type of engine, by the same manifacturer... Meaning, toyota with an inline 4cyl can be powered by another toyota inline 4cyl, Nissan with a V formation 6 cyl can be powered by another Nissan V formation 6 cyl... I wanted to have a shot running a 1MZ, but that's a no-go...

 

It has to be a car that was available to the Australian public from a dealership, on the approved list of models, or FIA approved homologation model...

 

What I am wondering, is what race class is free as far as engine conversions go???

[kickn5k]

What I am wondering, is what race class is free as far as engine conversions go???

Sports sedans is what your after.

[irokin]

Starlet wouldn't be eligible though, sad to say... It's got to be a model available via dealer network locally. (there are other criteria, but an imported starlet doesn't fit any of them :( )

 

Hom. Grp Make Model

5755 A Toyota Starlet 1200 KP62

5022 A Toyota Starlet 1300 KP 61

[diegoh]

Hom. Grp Make Model

5755 A Toyota Starlet 1200 KP62

5022 A Toyota Starlet 1300 KP 61

 

So yes Starlet allowed?

 

Destroked 4age can use slightly longer rods stroke is only 6mm less so will rev to 10,000 fairly comfortably

considering non counterweighed datsun A cranks can go beyond 10K and wear is mainly on camshaft.

 

Yet alloy 50kg engine is just such a calling!