Can The Plane Fly?

[James]

But if you look at it from the example that I had brung up, with a jet/plane/aircraft with ANY type of flying mechanism, being on the ground with no wheels or skids, would it generate enough thrust to actually move? I think not.

 

So, essentially, if my theory is correct, the wheels ARE an integral part of the planes flying mechanism. The thrust directs its energy to the wheels, indirectly, so that the plane can move...

that depends on how much thrust you want to apply, you can move any thing with out wheels if you throw enough trust behind it, imagin throwing a 747 engine in to your rolla and lighting her up even with out wheels it will start moving.

Rolls-Royce RB211 (50,100-53,110 lb. thrust)

Plus it does not matter if the plan is on skids or its belly the sliding friction would be simla, friction is not dependent on suface area, only weight

 

however with out wheels or skids control may be a little difficult

[Rolla__Boy]

Obviously, if the plane isn't moving, it wont take off, that is not the question, some people seem to be stuck on it. The basic question here is, will the plane move forward, or just sit still.

 

that depends on how much thrust you want to apply, you can move any thing with out wheels if you throw enough trust behind it, imagin throwing a 747 engine in to your rolla and lighting her up even with out wheels it will start moving.

Rolls-Royce RB211 (50,100-53,110 lb. thrust)

Plus it does not matter if the plan is on skids or its belly the sliding friction would be simla, friction is not dependent on suface area, only weight

 

however with out wheels or skids control may be a little difficult

 

Wheels are round, they roll, they have bearings, so sorry, the friction WOULD NOT be the same as the body of the metal plane, sitting on the ground.

[Dan]

I, being scientifically illiterate, take from the link that you have gave me, this thread and my thoughts, would believe the effect to be that similar of a car on a dyno. I do understand that cars and planes use completely different acceleration methods etc. however the basic idea is still there.

 

I just thought of another example, which I havent really thought about much.. so I may look back on it later and think i'm a complete idiot;

If a plane that was going say 300km/h, into a 300km/h wind (headfirst), would it lift off?

This could be a stupid example.

[Redwarf]

IMHO the plane won't move.

 

4 Rollers won't move 400 tonne of a/c if it's on it's guts. 4 Engines won't break traction at t/o power if the brakes are on. 50K of thrust isn't that much when you look at the GE90's on the 777. They're pumping out 100k these days. Anyway, you'd have to find 4 RB211's that were working first.

[Dan]

One thing many people are forgetting here. The conveyor is matching the speed of the plane. In order for the conveyor to start moving the plane would have to start moving. The tires on the plane are NOT going to start moving without the plane unless the conveyor is cheating and getting a head start. Since it's fact that the forward thrust of the plane is caused by the propellers and NOT the tires, the plane would actually HAVE to move to make the tires turn! If the plane moves through the air fast enough it WILL have lift. People act like the plane COULD sit still and the conveyor move backwards, well that couldn't happen because the conveyor is MATCHING the speed of the plane and the plane isn't moving! Think about it people! The speed of a plane isn't measured in tire speed it's measured in air speed, if there is no air speed there is no speed.

Taken from another discussion.

 

This is essentially what I have been trying to say. The plane won't gather enough speed to take off, which was the original question.

[Rolla__Boy]

I don't think it matters what engine is in the plane, you are concentrating on the wrong part of the question. Reading too much into it. The plane obviously has enough power to take off on a normal runway, so that is all that is needed to know.

 

Wheel speed on an aircraft has little to do with plane speed.

[Dan]

I'm gunna go now.. I really don't know anything more to say on this topic, i'll have another look tomorrow morning, and hopefully I will learn valuable knowledge...

 

I havent meant to argue with anyone in this topic, thinking about it... just trying to look at everything from every angle.

 

Have a good one!

Edited December 19, 2005 by Dan

[James]

thought I might just throw a spanner in to the works.

did you know that the bottom of the tyre is always stationary with the ground at any speed, however that is only the part touching the ground.

think about that next time your driving your rolla

Edited December 19, 2005 by James

[Rolla__Boy]

I, being scientifically illiterate, take from the link that you have gave me, this thread and my thoughts, would believe the effect to be that similar of a car on a dyno. I do understand that cars and planes use completely different acceleration methods etc. however the basic idea is still there.

 

The reason this is so different, is that cars have drive on the wheels on a dyno, as opposed to the plane, which uses thrust to move, plus the car on a dyno makes the dyno move, as opposed to it moving to match the wheel speed.

[Dan]

But the patch of tire that makes contact with the ground constantly changes its area etc.. so it doesnt always stay the same. Also this is a different situation, the road stays stationary whereas the conveyor belt doesnt, different theory..

 

Think about that next time you are doin a fully sick uleh drift... fukn whoosh lol.. . nah jj i just added that in to stir the pot a lil..

 

Just read Rolla Boys post (was slow to reply myself) and I understand what you are saying.

 

Looking at it, I am actually really puzzled. I am not sure.. I want you guys to sort it out for me, my head hurts!

[Super Jamie]

what the hell are you guys talking about? either way, your flight has been delayed, please keep your seatbelts on and observe the non-smoking signs at all times :)

[Rolla__Boy]

Think about that next time you are doin a fully sick uleh drift... fukn whoosh lol.. . nah jj i just added that in to stir the pot a lil..

 

Damn this mofo cracks me up :) :y:

 

 

 

what the hell are you guys talking about? either way, your flight has been delayed, please keep your seatbelts on and observe the non-smoking signs at all times :lol:

 

 

 

So does this mofo :) :y:

[Dan]

Bwahahhahahahah :) :) :lol:

 

I'm gunna go now..

Pffft so much about that...

 

So what is the final verdict on this... I reckon a poll is needed.

[Rolla__Boy]

I think it might be best to agree to disagree, before someone gets pissed off, you are almost at 1000 posts too Dan, good job

[Dan]

Agreed buddy, or disagreed.... haha

 

Yeah, not that long ago I was at 500.. i'm such a spamwhore. Anyways, gunna leave this topic now..