How Low Can You Go

[caibs]

alright guys, my ke38 is now rego'd - stoked.

 

but it looks like a 4wd. i have spare struts & a spare leafpack with extra leafs so i can always convert back to stock if i need to.

 

 

so, the plan is to cut the springs.

 

tell me; in your professional oppinion- how much can i cut the springs in the front before i run the risk of damaging the car?

 

 

churrrrs!

[Mason.]

Are they just the stock springs that your cutting?

 

I'm running kings "low" springs with 2 coils cut in the front of my ke36

 

I'm no professional but it seems to be handeling it no dramas :)

[caibs]

yeh just standard coils mate!

[rian]

The usual reply is either "don't cut your springs, get lowered springs" or "it's too low if your springs are no longer held captive by your shock". The car will easily go low enough to tuck tires and what not, but you will get bump steer, which isn't cool. This can be fixed by roll-centre adjusters, but as far as I know you cannot get them to suit KE30 struts, maybe T3 do them?

Also you need to consider that lowering your car shortens the amount of travel in your suspension, a stiffer spring rate is usually used to compensate for the reduction in suspension travel to prevent your shocks bottoming out. Whereas if you cut your springs, you have less travel but retain close to the original spring rate, which could cause your shocks to bottom out and damage them as a result. If you decide to cut your springs, make sure you have enough travel.

If you want to go really low, like tucking tires you should probably look into a strut or coilover upgrade, AE86 suspension is probably what you're after as there are alternative shocks you can fit in those struts that are shorter than original (this requires shortening the strut or doing a coilover conversion) eg ST185, SW20, AE92, any 43.5mm diameter shock really, and this will allow you to have a low ride height but still have usable suspension travel. Unfortunately there are no decent shock upgrades for KE30/KE70 struts.

I understand you were after a qualitative answer, but I think it's more important that you do a little bit of research and understand why you can or cannot lower a car a certain amount, or get under your car and figure out how much you can lower it before you run out of travel or before it starts to have an effect on your suspension and steering geometry.

Edited June 15, 2011 by rianwest

[SLW42]

For fronts i have always taken as a start 2 coils of the spring, then gone a quarter at a time till i was happy with it

 

 

you need low like this......

 

Edited June 15, 2011 by SLW42

[altezzaclub]

Throw the springs away.. Whatever you do will be illegal so why stop halfway! You can be fairly sure you're a short-term temporary citizen on this earth so how much you screw up the handling, steering and braking doesn't really matter.

 

You should at least aim to have it beached as on any speed hump, and completely incapable of going up a kerb to someone's driveway. The cop shouldn't be able to get a coke can under it sideways, never mind standing up!

 

The ultimate cool is a teflon body kit that slides along the ground as you move, giving zero ground clearance at all times.

 

""cause your shocks to bottom out and damage them"" means 'smash the foot valve to pieces and bend the shaft'- instant throwaway if you didn't run off the road and write the car off in the incident that caused them to bottom out.

[dirtbagke70]

cut them till the car is 5cm off the ground hahaha

[ke70dave]

remove all shocks and springs.

 

replace with solid metal 40x40SHS.

 

you want handling like a go-kart yeah? go-karts have no suspension, so neither should you? right???

 

SLW that looks ridiculous.

 

altezza, teflon body kit, i like that.

 

but why use teflon? use fiberglass, so then you can stich it back together with wire ties, all the cool kids do that.

 

in short, cut springs arent the greatest idea, especially with standard shocks.

 

in order to do it properly, a set of new shocks, and a set of lowered springs, king springs or whatever work good.

 

having you car dragging along the ground, makes you look like a bogan, will attract the cops like nothing else, and will make the car handle like absolute crap.

Edited June 15, 2011 by ke70dave

[Crowie55]

I've got king springs with subaru brumby short stroke shocks in the front stock struts, flipped eye and extra leaves added + 50mm lowering blocks for the rear in my ke38 wagon. front sill sits 97mm and rear sits 101mm. bump stops need to be manipulated. Looks alright and handles average, but the ride is shithouse! I've only just put the stuff in the weekend just gone for the show on the 19th and I've been tempted to change it back to my old set-up many times this week. Now I love the low down slammer idea but for a daily driver it's doing my head in.

 

lowering it any further will result in the diff housing being welded to the chassis rail and front springs taken out completely. It's pointless and stupid being this low, I'd rather be higher and enjoy the ride and performance of the car. I'll get a pic up later this arvo for you.

[altezzaclub]

lol!

 

Thankyou Crowie, some honest opinions on ride versus lowering.

 

After the show can you raise it 50mm and let us know how the ride goes?? We should be able to hammer out a height that gives a smooth but firm ride with good handling.

[Crowie55]

lol!

 

Thankyou Crowie, some honest opinions on ride versus lowering.

 

After the show can you raise it 50mm and let us know how the ride goes?? We should be able to hammer out a height that gives a smooth but firm ride with good handling.

I was running the eyes flipped and added springs without the 50mm blocks, it was perfect firm but comfortable and didn't hit the modified bump stops over large bumps. It looked nice and also performed very well.

 

My problem at the moment is there is not enough travel between the diff housing and the bump stops(~1inch) so at any minor bump in the road and the diff bangs violently into the stops, fronts are falcon kings chopped, I have standard corolla kings that worked very well mated with the brumby short strokes.

 

If your going to lower your car then do it right and don't go too low!

 

Cheers, Crowie.

[B.L.Z.BUB]

Ive run 2 1/2 coils off on the front for ages now, it sucks.

 

Need some tie rod tubes from an xt130 please. Get those struts in with some decent shocks.

[altezzaclub]

Can you remove the center bump stop and get a pair of long-compression ones for the rear shocks??

 

These compress much more and are progressive.

[altezzaclub]

caibs- a bit of Billzilla..

 

For the car to handle properly, the front roll centre must be about 1/2 to 2/3's of the height of the rear one to make the car handle nicely. By lowering a car, you will often lower the roll centres - Except if the car has a live axle because the roll centre is usually fixed in relation to the diff housing. This means that if you have an average rear wheel drive car that has a live axle, then you can actually make the handling worse by lowering it because then the front roll centre will be too low in relationship to the rear roll centre. (The car will understeer into & through corners, and oversteer exiting.)

 

http://www.billzilla.org/suspensn.htm

[rollalicious]

Running standard shocks on ke30, I have the front standard springs compressed 2 and a bit inches ($70), still captive, no difference in ride quality, no hitting bumpstops, wheels have been realigned as they needed doing anyway. Started by lowering the back with 2 inch lowering block (worth their weight in scrap) which had the wheels level with guards and 1 inch til standard squishy part of bump stop (level ride height with front) leafs were way too soft.

They are now flipped and leaf added for about 1 and a half lower, mainly because the aren't compressed as much at rest. bumpstops have nearly an inch of thick bit taken out (they are like 2 1/2) standard $150- what are a set of blocks and shackles worth?

 

Its not a race car, and its the best compromise for a cheap daily car, my car was on bumpstops with people in the backseat before the lowering blocks.

.