Random Thinking Of Superchargers..

[FOOMAN]

Before I say this I'll say I don't know exactly how a alternator works exactly, so forgive me if what I say sounds silly.

 

I was just thinking about superchargers and how they need to be run either from a belt to the engine or with electric motors, so I thought, if you hooked up a separate alternator to the engine and then somehow connected the energy created from this to run the SC, would this allow it to run better/harder due to the alternator using less KW from the engine than if the SC was directly connected to it?

Or would you need the alternator to power something which would run a belt to the SC which would probably mean there is no point unless the power gained from the alternator to run the SC would equal more for the loss of the KW used from the engine than if it were just the SC straight from the engine. :hmm:

 

 

Sorry if it makes no sense, I sometimes find it hard to get what makes perfect sense in my mind into words that others can understand. :bash:

[t18drifts]

lol nice idea but the alternator is a small generator which is used to keep your battarie charged (there is proberley a better explanation out there)

 

but you would need a seperate motor (electric ) to run the sc but I'm pretty sure that it is the best just to go a conventional setup of the engine do corect me if I'm wrong :happy:

[FOOMAN]

So pretty much the alternator wouldn't produce enough power to run it? ..I didn't think of that haha

[t18drifts]

i dunno can a 12v electric motor do say 1000- 5000rpm

 

haha

 

probaly could spin the sc pulley but not as fast as your engine

 

although you can buy elctronic turbos n shit on ebay

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-6cpENHGXU and as you can see they do shit all but it isnt on a dyno so yeah

[Twinky]

All that electronic turbo jazz is just plain bullshit and is aimed at people who don't know mutch about cars.

Yes eelctric fans can blow out a heap of air, but no where near the amount consumed by the engine. Apart from that

an electric fan does not have the torque to compress the air as well as increasing that compression at higher rpm.

There is a fan that can do this but you would need a battery the size of a car or a 3 phase generator straped to the roof of your car.

I like it in that video how he shows the "difference" he is just squishing the pedal a little harder when he flicks the switch. I know this because

1: An electric fan of that size would do f@$k all, in fact it is restricting flow. Pretty mutch he is seeing good mpg becasue it is simulating

driving like a granny due to the power deacrease.

2: The rate of rise and fall + range is all over the place. Meaning it is some one pressing and depressing the accelarator pedal.

3. Just because this guy sounds like a complete douchebag

 

Now back to the supercharger thing. The alternators purpose is to generate electricity mutch like the same way the turbines in power stations

generate electricity. This in turn keeps your battery charged with voltage preventing it from going flat. Adding another one of these would only

enable you generate more power for the battery, meaning you could run a bigger battery and run a fully sick sub doofer sound system.

 

Now with your idea of using some other source to power the charger. Basically what you are saying is along the lines of perpetual motion/overunity but due to physics

you would have to break the first and second law of thermodynamics ie. conservation of energy, heat transfer.

In very basic terms you cannot produce more power than you consume(overunity), not to say that we cannot produce the same amount of power as consumed(Unity)

it just that we need a %100 efficient engine which in this day and age is undiscovered.

 

That about sums it all up I guess, time for a coffee.

[ke70dave]

to sum up what twinky sais:

 

you can't get something for nothing.

 

any energy you want out of your supercharger, has to come from somewhere.

 

and the more devices you include in your system, the over all efficiency of your system becomes lower, as every device has a efficiency rating.

[t18drifts]

reminds me of full metal alchemist lol but yeah thats how i couldnt explain it

[jono1986]

http://www.force-flow.com/default.aspx

 

There's your best bet, but with a small amount of power increase for the amount of work and the money to pay for it, it would be easier and cheaper to go a normal supercharger.

 

You'd have to upgrade your alternator, which has been explained in detail on this forum.

 

Oh and t18, electric motors can go from 1 to way over 60,000 RPM

Edited June 8, 2011 by jono1986

[Sloth]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_supercharger

 

Is that something along the lines of what you were originally thinking? A supercharger driven from an electric motor?

[FOOMAN]

All that electronic turbo jazz is just plain bullshit and is aimed at people who don't know mutch about cars.

Yes eelctric fans can blow out a heap of air, but no where near the amount consumed by the engine. Apart from that

an electric fan does not have the torque to compress the air as well as increasing that compression at higher rpm.

There is a fan that can do this but you would need a battery the size of a car or a 3 phase generator straped to the roof of your car.

I like it in that video how he shows the "difference" he is just squishing the pedal a little harder when he flicks the switch. I know this because

1: An electric fan of that size would do f@$k all, in fact it is restricting flow. Pretty mutch he is seeing good mpg becasue it is simulating

driving like a granny due to the power deacrease.

2: The rate of rise and fall + range is all over the place. Meaning it is some one pressing and depressing the accelarator pedal.

3. Just because this guy sounds like a complete douchebag

 

Now back to the supercharger thing. The alternators purpose is to generate electricity mutch like the same way the turbines in power stations

generate electricity. This in turn keeps your battery charged with voltage preventing it from going flat. Adding another one of these would only

enable you generate more power for the battery, meaning you could run a bigger battery and run a fully sick sub doofer sound system.

 

Now with your idea of using some other source to power the charger. Basically what you are saying is along the lines of perpetual motion/overunity but due to physics

you would have to break the first and second law of thermodynamics ie. conservation of energy, heat transfer.

In very basic terms you cannot produce more power than you consume(overunity), not to say that we cannot produce the same amount of power as consumed(Unity)

it just that we need a %100 efficient engine which in this day and age is undiscovered.

 

That about sums it all up I guess, time for a coffee.

 

Yeh I thought the same thing, looked like he was just revving it more.

Got a bit lost with that last bit, but I understand most it of. And I get why it wouldn't work now.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_supercharger

 

Is that something along the lines of what you were originally thinking? A supercharger driven from an electric motor?

 

Yeh pretty much. I guess I was just making thing harder than they are haha. I knew they had electric motors I was just wondering if an alternator would do it better but I forgot they are only really 12v.

 

If I ever go a supercharger (which I know will happen one day :P) it'll just be a belt straight off the engine, screw all the other fiddling around crap. :hmm:

[Twinky]

http://www.force-flow.com/default.aspx

 

There's your best bet, but with a small amount of power increase for the amount of work and the money to pay for it, it would be easier and cheaper to go a normal supercharger.

 

You'd have to upgrade your alternator, which has been explained in detail on this forum.

 

Oh and t18, electric motors can go from 1 to way over 60,000 RPM

 

 

Please don't tell me you beleive this?

I love it how it says that it can move 1000cfm..... Did they mention that that rating is given by movement in free space?

And did they mention that a fan can not actually compress air? The cfm would dramatically drop when you try to cram that air in a tight space.

So basically yes that fan does have the air requirements but.... It is a restriction in itself to airflow and it would not give the motor any more air than it

would take in without it in place. Oh and they didn't mention the part where a 43,000 rpm motors don't last very long. Oh god where do I finish?

With the fact that a 2 litre motor needs what? 200 CFM at 6000 rpm and that thing can get a whopping 1000 cfm? thats what, over 2psi of boost? and only 5-10% gain?

 

The nail in the coffin would be that I DARE you to ring up a reputable mechanic and ask them to install one.

[jono1986]

Please don't tell me you beleive this?

I love it how it says that it can move 1000cfm..... Did they mention that that rating is given by movement in free space?

And did they mention that a fan can not actually compress air? The cfm would dramatically drop when you try to cram that air in a tight space.

So basically yes that fan does have the air requirements but.... It is a restriction in itself to airflow and it would not give the motor any more air than it

would take in without it in place. Oh and they didn't mention the part where a 43,000 rpm motors don't last very long. Oh god where do I finish?

With the fact that a 2 litre motor needs what? 200 CFM at 6000 rpm and that thing can get a whopping 1000 cfm? thats what, over 2psi of boost? and only 5-10% gain?

 

The nail in the coffin would be that I DARE you to ring up a reputable mechanic and ask them to install one.

 

 

......well I just got served....

[t18drifts]

http://www.force-flow.com/default.aspx

 

There's your best bet, but with a small amount of power increase for the amount of work and the money to pay for it, it would be easier and cheaper to go a normal supercharger.

 

You'd have to upgrade your alternator, which has been explained in detail on this forum.

 

Oh and t18, electric motors can go from 1 to way over 60,000 RPM

 

 

yeah i no :) i was only thinking about small little rc car electric motors :)

[B.L.Z.BUB]

Laws of energy.

 

You never come out ahead.

You never break even.

You always lose.

 

For current physics anyway, who knows what the LHC will bring about.

 

An alternator is sucking power from the motor so that it can feed that energy back into a supercharger to power the motor....

Energy is lost because nothing is 100% efficient, there is always power and energy lost, either because of low efficiency, but also noise, heat etc.

 

Troll science, if only.

 

[FOOMAN]

Troll science, if only.

 

 

But my car does that? :P

Edited June 8, 2011 by FOOMAN