Supercharging A 4Age 20V Silvertop

[HayzTawil]

hey guys I'm thinking of using a 4agze supercharger on my 20v ST, has this been done before? are the internals strong enough??

[Trev]

Only worth it if you use a centrifugal supercharger as something like an SC12/14 is said to not flow enough for the 20v's.

 

Depending on what boost you wanna run.

[HayzTawil]

ok so so a sc14 is out of the question?? whats the safest boost for stock internals?

[HayzTawil]

or sc12? or is that the same as sc14?

[Trev]

ok so so a sc14 is out of the question?? whats the safest boost for stock internals?

 

Going from what I have read, yes, Up to about 8psi.

 

or sc12? or is that the same as sc14?

 

No, sc12 is the 4agze charger, sc14 is the 1ggze charger.

[HayzTawil]

ok thanks trev, what about the sc12 then I'm currently bidding on one on ebay, don't wanna get it if it doesnt work properly on 20v.

 

i read somewhere that the silvertop has some same internals though as the gze?

[ke70dave]

pretty sure thats not correct about the GZE.

 

20V has pistons with 5 valve cut outs for a start.

 

also lets get some real numbers going here.

 

work out how much air your engine will eat at say peak power (8000ish in a 20V?)

 

work on 100% volumetric efficiency at first, though its unrealisic, its prolly around the 80% area.

 

now try and find some actual numbers on flow of the superchargers in question. and then compare.

 

alternatively work out the air flow of a 16V 4agze and compare it to the 20V.

 

i dare say they will be pretty close. only 1 extra valve on the intake side, thought that is 30% more "valves". though there is still only 2 exhaust valves, unsure if that is the limiting factor. probably not for VE.

 

now onto the 20V itself, the compression standard is pretty high (11.5?:1) if you run low PSI, and a GOOD tune i think you may be able to get away with it, but the engine will be a bit of a hand grenade. it will be rediculsouly responsive but unsure how long it will last. now when i say good tune, I'm talking spending hours and hours tuning every load cell, i think when most tuners "tune" engines they tune for what and thats about it....

 

best bet would be to put a set of 4agze pistons (semi forged with a ceramic coating, available new for about $500) into the 20V, unsure on what compression ratio you will end up with though. you should be able to use the standard conrods, same piston gudgeon pin size.

 

if anything the sc12 may only be able to keep up with 8psi or so on the 20V, where as i think ive seen guys with sc12's on 16v's getting 10/12psi out of the sc12.

[Hiro Protagonist]

pretty sure thats not correct about the GZE.

 

20V has pistons with 5 valve cut outs for a start.

 

The silvertop crank, block (I think) and conrods are the same as an AE101 GZE. GZEs have always used the same bottom end and internals (apart from pistons) as their respective year's 4AGE

[HayzTawil]

what about turbo charging most likely a garrett t3/t4 or t4? same issues or...? i already have after market ecu cost me bout 3500 it has 90atw my mechanic says to leave internals for now, whats a better option supercharged or turbocharged?

[Trev]

pretty sure thats not correct about the GZE.

 

20V has pistons with 5 valve cut outs for a start.

 

The silvertop crank, block (I think) and conrods are the same as an AE101 GZE. GZEs have always used the same bottom end and internals (apart from pistons) as their respective year's 4AGE

 

What Ian said, the smallport onwards uses the same block & crank.

 

also lets get some real numbers going here.

 

work out how much air your engine will eat at say peak power (8000ish in a 20V?)

 

work on 100% volumetric efficiency at first, though its unrealisic, its prolly around the 80% area.

 

now try and find some actual numbers on flow of the superchargers in question. and then compare.

 

alternatively work out the air flow of a 16V 4agze and compare it to the 20V.

 

i dare say they will be pretty close. only 1 extra valve on the intake side, thought that is 30% more "valves". though there is still only 2 exhaust valves, unsure if that is the limiting factor. probably not for VE.

 

now onto the 20V itself, the compression standard is pretty high (11.5?:1) if you run low PSI, and a GOOD tune i think you may be able to get away with it, but the engine will be a bit of a hand grenade. it will be rediculsouly responsive but unsure how long it will last. now when i say good tune, I'm talking spending hours and hours tuning every load cell, i think when most tuners "tune" engines they tune for what and thats about it....

 

best bet would be to put a set of 4agze pistons (semi forged with a ceramic coating, available new for about $500) into the 20V, unsure on what compression ratio you will end up with though. you should be able to use the standard conrods, same piston gudgeon pin size.

 

if anything the sc12 may only be able to keep up with 8psi or so on the 20V, where as i think ive seen guys with sc12's on 16v's getting 10/12psi out of the sc12.

 

This is one of the threads from toymods, can't find the other:

 

http://www.toymods.org.au/forums/showthread.php?t=29777

 

Perhaps speak to them about the SC on a 20v then.

 

10 & 12psi is pretty standard, Glen from wolf metalcraft is getting over 14psi out of his and has been for quite some time.

 

And a bigport has a C/R of 9.4:1 and people have ran them on 10psi with a stock ecu happily, I believe one was going for 3 years.

Edited September 22, 2010 by Trev

[ae824ate]

I personally would be more inclined to turbo. Its been done plenty of times, so there are people that can help you out with any questions. There is also turbo manifolds for the 20v's readily available. Another plus is the range of turbo's to suit the application, and the ease of boost adjustment if required. Wonder if anyone's ever used a centrifugal blower on a 20v?

[Hiro Protagonist]

I personally would be more inclined to turbo. Its been done plenty of times, so there are people that can help you out with any questions. There is also turbo manifolds for the 20v's readily available. Another plus is the range of turbo's to suit the application, and the ease of boost adjustment if required. Wonder if anyone's ever used a centrifugal blower on a 20v?

 

Seen a few clubmans with Vortech and Rotrex centrifugal chargers on silvertops...

Edited September 22, 2010 by Hiro Protagonist