Zenki T Series

[Taz_Rx]

Thread contents and title changes as I had Zenki's mixed up with Kouki's. :lolcry:

 

Something I discovered on the weekend and mentioned in my projects thread, thought I might chuck it up here so more people see it.

 

I've had a Zenki T series from a T18 laying around for ages which is planned to go into my turbo car. Finally got around the stripping it down on the weekend for a reco and leaf conversion.

 

As soon as I pulled the axles out I though to myself - "They don't look much bigger at all than a stock KE55 axle". So I thought I'd investigate it further.......

 

So I sat the (Zenki and ke55) axles next to each other. And to be honest if I had to pick one as being bigger I would have said the 55 one. "That couldn't be right" I though. So I tried to put the 55 axle in the Zenki centre..... and it wouldn't fit, but this could of just been because of a different number of splines.

So, I then put a Zenki axle in a 55 centre I had...... and it went in...... but what really amazed me was the fact that when I tried to turn the axle it spun freely inside the spider gear spline!!!!!!

 

So, A KE55* stock axle is actually bigger than a Zenki one!!!! :) :laff: :lolcry:

 

 

I'm now a bit unsure as to what I should do about a diff upgrade. I've busted a few 55 axles already and I really don't know wheather its worth downsizing the size of my axles just for the sake of an LSD. Does anybody know how much bigger Kouki axles are over a Zenki one?

And does anybody know if you can put a Kouki centre and axles into a Zenki housing?

 

 

*AFAIA KE30 axles (Borg warner) are the same size. And if people say you can put KE30 axles in a KE20 diff with 5mm trimmed off the ends (for 4x114 conversion) then KE20 are the same size as well. So, what might be an even more suprising way of saying it is - A KE20 has bigger axles than a T18!!! :)

Edited June 8, 2010 by Taz_Rx

[ke70dave]

hehe this would really annoy all the ae86 fan boys who lloooovveeee their T series diffs.

 

as for kouki/zenki difference, its like 1.5mm or something. smaller one is 23.somthing and the bigger one is 24.something. someone posted it up on ae86dc but i can't find it now.

 

it may have been 23.3 and 24.8?? not much in it.

 

got some verniers to check how big the T series axel is you have?

 

also:

 

http://www.aeu86.org/index/axle-amp-differ...5762/post=92692

 

this website suggests its 24mm for the smaller one, and 25.5 for the larger one.

[philbey]

Just a point of order, diameter isn't the only deciding factor in Strength of the axle; it's a rule of thumb really.

 

Design of the axle, design of the spline, root diameter (ie - the spline size), material spec and manufacturing process all come into play

 

Can you post a pick of the different axles for me? Like a comparison shot, side by side as well as end on?

Edited June 7, 2010 by philbey

[styler]

zenki = 24mm

kouki = 25.4mm

 

different diameter, number of splines and spline shape.

 

check club4ag for tech reference...

 

hey TazRx remember you can respline larger axles if you can find some to suit,

if your diff width is suitable...

 

I'm pretty sure you can swap axles and centres as a set from zenki to kouki in the t series housing,

but check first as i may be wrong...

Edited June 7, 2010 by styler

[corollaart]

Maybe like philbey said it might have finer splines ,than the 55 .interesting to see though ,i have a ra40 and the axles look weak as piss. :)

 

Need some pics of the two??

 

rob

[parrot]

hehe this would really annoy all the ae86 fan boys who lloooovveeee their T series diffs.

 

 

Yes we do!

 

If you have a T AE86 disc rear, you can swap the large/small centres without problem, as long as you have the matching axles. I found this out when I brought a spare axle back from England in my backpack - seriously.

 

But bear in mind the disc rear axles have a wider bearing which presumably will not locate within a drum housing?

 

Possibly you could fit a drum bearing to a disc axle?? But I don't know that for fact.

[tojo2]

Think you got the zenki (early)small bearing / kouki (late) wide bearing thing mixed up there Sid. If the diff came from an T18 it will be an early one

[Taz_Rx]

I've had a Kouki (They are the smaller ones yeah?) T series......

 

 

Think you got the zenki (early)small bearing / kouki (late) wide bearing thing mixed up there Sid. If the diff came from an T18 it will be an early one

 

I can never remember which one is which, so I'll edit the thread and title. Thanks Tor. :)

 

I took a couple of phone pics last night, just gotta bluetooth them to my lappie and I'll post them up.

[wde_bdy]

...

Edited October 16, 2010 by wde_bdy

[Taz_Rx]

Maybe like philbey said it might have finer splines ,than the 55 .interesting to see though ,i have a ra40 and the axles look weak as piss. :)

 

Need some pics of the two??

 

rob

 

Nah its deffinately smaller. The fact that the Zenki axles could freely turn inside the '55 centre is proof of this.

Splines look much the same.

 

Also, whe you refer to KE30 axles in the KE20, I think this is only for Jap spec, not sure if it actual works on the Oz stuff or if the KE20's even got the BW diff.

 

I think you might be right. I've never had to do this so have never really researched it, but what you'd said would make sense - You'd use jap spec (Banjo) axles in the Jap spec KE20 diff.... with 5mm trimmed off. Can anybody confirm this?

 

Pics up in a sec.

Edited June 8, 2010 by Taz_Rx

[Taz_Rx]

Piccies:

 

KE55 (broken) axle is on the left, and Zenki on the right.....

 

 

....yes I did an awesome job of snapping that axle. :)

 

 

 

So I've had a bit more of a think about weather to use the Zenki or not. :)

I've snapped 3x '55 axles in my rolla life...... and all of them have been while using a welded diff. And only one of them was broken while giving it a hard time (snapped when I rolled off the burnout pad at the drags and hooked up), the other 2x broke while just casually driving around town (one was when I casually pulled into a car park at a bottle shop). What does this say - Weldys put A LOT of strain on axles.

So, if I were to run and LSD instead of a weldy this strain would be minimal. For this reason I'm thinking I might actually stick with the Zenki since I have it. I would like to hear some opinions from others though?

[styler]

the mechanical forces imposed on the diff from a low speed turn are huge, its no wonder the axles break easily...

id say you are best off with a lsd in a t series, else f series or g series if you want to keep it toyota...

 

t series diffs both zenki and kouki have a lot of lsd options and some disc conversion options:

 

clutch pack:

1 way, 1.5way, 2 way

combo series of two of the above

oem and lots of aftermarket types

second hand also common

rebuild kits avaliable

toyota oem, trd, cusco, kaaz, tomei

 

torsen:

oem type 1 and aftermarket type 2

 

what it really becomes is a rear end package of housing, lsd, axles, mounts and brakes at a few

grand if you go all new, tough and fully spec'd out.

 

cheap option could be ta22 t series with second hand lsd and new drums, just weld on mounts cut off from donor housing...

Edited June 8, 2010 by styler

[tojo2]

cheap option could be ta22 t series with second hand lsd and new drums, just weld on mounts cut off from donor housing...

 

+ they`re the right width for ke3/5 don't know how wide the T18s are?

[corollaart]

Yep nice job on the axle there taz ,but i think i got it all worked out .The problem is that your store your axles next to tupperware .

 

This my friend is a huge no no :) :) .

 

As this tupperware is quite toxic (even to car parts )it has been banned in many countrys .

 

As well bountys have been put out for people who sell this stuff.

 

cheers rob :bash:

[philbey]

Yeh almost defintely the welded diff is the cause of the failure.

 

Get me a picture of the fractured face of the axle in high res and as clear as possible - use the macro function on the camera if you've got one, so that I can see the grain structure of the metal.

 

with lockers, that chirp chirp chirp puts a fairly intense "on and off" cyclic load on the axle. Those tiny radiuses on each spline act to magnify any stress within the metal, so that almost certainly you'll be able to pick the exact spline that the fracture started.