16v Vs 20v Into A Ke30

[ke70dave]

i see where you are coming from matt, and a 20V is definately better than a 16V

 

but if you assume that the engine is to remain standard then i still see the bigport/smallport being a better option.

 

the main draw back of the 20V is the aftermarket ECU is required, which although is a fantastic investment, has the potential to double a conversion cost.

 

you know how much money i spent on my 4age conversion matty, so would know the impact that an adaptronic (~$1500) + a tune (~$400) would have on the my budget.

 

now on the other hand, to get a smallport/bigport up to 20V level of performance (or closeish too) will also require an aftermarket ecu (+~$1900) and cams (+~$1000).

 

so looking at it from that point of a view a 20V is a more economically viable solution.

 

but if the OP is content with a standard bigport or smallport, which in my car is plenty of fun and definately enough power to have fun, and get into trouble. then the cost benefit of using a 16V with a standard ecu is very appealing.

 

i think the OP needs to go for a ride in a few cars, to see if the extra cost of a 20V is worth it.

[LittleRedSpirit]

i see where you are coming from matt, and a 20V is definately better than a 16V

 

but if you assume that the engine is to remain standard then i still see the bigport/smallport being a better option.

 

the main draw back of the 20V is the aftermarket ECU is required, which although is a fantastic investment, has the potential to double a conversion cost.

 

you know how much money i spent on my 4age conversion matty, so would know the impact that an adaptronic (~$1500) + a tune (~$400) would have on the my budget.

 

now on the other hand, to get a smallport/bigport up to 20V level of performance (or closeish too) will also require an aftermarket ecu (+~$1900) and cams (+~$1000).

 

so looking at it from that point of a view a 20V is a more economically viable solution.

 

but if the OP is content with a standard bigport or smallport, which in my car is plenty of fun and definately enough power to have fun, and get into trouble. then the cost benefit of using a 16V with a standard ecu is very appealing.

 

i think the OP needs to go for a ride in a few cars, to see if the extra cost of a 20V is worth it.

 

 

Yes of course its a personal preference. I got nothing against a smallport. Most likely a better motor for a daily.

 

I'm just 100% over dreamers saying that a rebuilt smallport will defeat a 20 valve. Its physically impossible. Then they always say its cheaper and that just proves that they haven't researched it or even thought about it.

Edited May 13, 2010 by LittleRedSpirit

[ke70dave]

Yes of course its a personal preference. I got nothing against a smallport. Most likely a better motor for a daily.

 

I'm just 100% over dreamers saying that a rebuilt smallport will defeat a 20 valve. Its physically impossible. Then they always say its cheaper and that just proves that they haven't researched it or even thought about it.

 

yep agreed

 

but this is the internet matty! we are all experts!

[beerhead]

Ok, sounds like a gotta test a theory I read about on my 20V, i bet there'd be more in RWD if it works. Apparently you can run a 20V ecu with 4 coils without having to split the signal into to 2 or 4 pulses. It seems because the motor is fully sequential the fuel only gets injected into the cylinder 1 stroke before it gets fired and you won't get pre-ignition because there's no fuel pooling in the other ports.

 

Going to test the theory with some 1ZZ coils before I wire up my 3SGE. SamQ is working on a front mount dizzy relocation kit too, similar to what i've seen used in japan, could be worth a shot. You can get right angle dizzy converters for G13B conversions into suzuki sierra's too.

 

I once contemplated getting a megajolt programmable ignition and fitting a hall effect to the front of the motor still retaining the old CAS base to run the ECU on my 3SGE. You do the MSD igniter mod that's a resistor and NPN transistor trick to trick the ecu to not go into limp mode when the factory igniter is deleted.

[Trev]

the main draw back of the 20V is the aftermarket ECU is required, which although is a fantastic investment, has the potential to double a conversion cost.

 

The 20v wagon I did a bit of work on and test drove at my last workshop was running the standard ecu with a section of the firewall recessed for the dizzy to poke into and this car got mod plated, road worthied & registered, I dunno how that worked but it might be something to look into.

[beerhead]

Workshops that mod plate cars with a hacked firewalls will end up with some nasty fines if the owner gets picked up by the RTA. After July a new specially trained task force is out who will pick things like that in a flash. Though technically its illegal to drill a hole in the firewall to accept a hydraulic clutch too!

[Trev]

Workshops that mod plate cars with a hacked firewalls will end up with some nasty fines if the owner gets picked up by the RTA. After July a new specially trained task force is out who will pick things like that in a flash. Though technically its illegal to drill a hole in the firewall to accept a hydraulic clutch too!

 

I know it is illegal to cut a hole but it was cut and had a recessed plate bolted onto it, Dunno who did the or roadie as it only came into to get the ignition system fixed up.

[greenmac80]

ok you DO NOT have to go aftermarket ecu.

you can remove the dizzy to the point where you still have the CAS and plate it up.

 

then from here you use the IGT signal from the ecu and run it into 4 COP's toyota ones seem to work best 1zz 1nz etc.

they are internally ignited. you then use the signal from the COP's to give the IGF signal back to the ECU.

 

here is a thread on it and the proof it works

http://forums.club4ag.com/zerothread?id=18900&page=1

 

have a read through its tedious but it works. and there is an explanation on why it work on the last page.

 

great option.

[beerhead]

I don't think it's a great option though, just cheap and easy. 1ZZ coils normally go for 200-300K km's so running them 4 times as hard I'd expect every 50-75K km's a coil will crap itself, esp considering you'd be starting with a coil with at least 100,000km's on em. I've done 40K km's in a year in the past, so have a spare set of coils in the glove box.

 

I believe nothing on the net till I test it myself, I'm gonna try it as I said, will post a video of the outcome, which I haven't seen anyone do yet.

 

 

Yeah I figured you were in the know Trev, just shocked they let it get by hey.

[greenmac80]

there is a post in there somewhere explaining that it more than likely won't effect them. but hey yeah i can see your point. the coils aren't overly expensive

and yeah cheap and easy. myself and samq are nutting out another way which will be almost as cheap and easy still using COP's and the stock ecu.

 

and also if youlike you wouldn't have to use COP's you could use normal plugs and leads.

 

once a kit is developed it'll be easy as.

Edited May 13, 2010 by greenmac80

[beerhead]

I designed a circuit using a collection of flip flops that uses injector pulses to trigger the right coil a while back, runs in a simulator perfectly. I've got an adaptronic now, so I won't be using it. Then I also got thinking, the motor would need to get a home signal before it starts to fire the injectors with a sequential setup, assuming it starts firing on the same cylinder every time you start the motor it should be really easy to build.

 

I've done half an electrical engineering degree and I wouldn't be confident making one to sell it to someone else, so make sure you test it for a year or 2 before selling it to people.

Edited May 14, 2010 by beerhead

[19914afc]

There is a guy at work and he made a whole new firewall in his ae86 to put his 20v in, looks like a factory job you wouldn't be able to tell.

Edited May 14, 2010 by 19914afc

[LittleRedSpirit]

There is a guy at work and he made a whole new firewall in his ae86 to put his 20v in, looks like a factory job you wouldn't be able to tell.

 

 

It doesnt matter how well he did it its still illegal.

[19914afc]

It doesnt matter how well he did it its still illegal.

 

 

true, can you get a mod plate for that at all or not?

[beerhead]

Cutting grinding and welding your firewall is completely illegal. To the letter of the law it is technically illegal to even drill a hole to mount a hydraulic clutch in a KE70!!

 

You crash and hurt / kill someone with a car with those kind of modifications and they work it out your 3rd party insurance company will payout the damages and then send you a bill for the value as you have no cover.