16v Vs 20v Into A Ke30

[rollah]

hey all

just wondering which would be a better match for my ke30

the 16v or the 20v

i can't diside between the two ive herd the out put only differs by about 17Kw

any info would great post pics if you have done it befor or have seen it done

 

anyway cheers

rollah

[ke70dave]

have you done any reasearch on what is involved with converting both these engines to RWD?

[beerhead]

20V will cost twice the money because you have to go aftermarket ecu. Dizzy is out the back of the head and you need to go to coils. 16V is a much cheaper way to go.

[rollah]

yeh mate ive done alot of it on here and alot of it out of

and I'm aware of the cost and the stuffing around needed to get it running A1

 

all I'm wondering is which one will be worth it in the end eg

the 20v is more $$ but if the 16v is going to go just as hard for the same $$

its hard to chose

 

so it would be good to have some feed back on it

[snot35]

If you're not going to do internal mods to the motor, the 20v is probably better in that it's newer and has most likely done less k's. If you're going to go nuts tuning it then theoretically the 16v is a better choice. But there are a whole lot of caveats to that.

[philbey]

Man this debate used to get hashed out lots on twincam16, from all the reading I did when I my AE86 the premium you pay to buy and convert a 20v to RWD, the same amount invested in installing and modding a 16V will get you moving quicker anyway.

[orangeLJ]

rebuild a smallport 16v and throw that in, will outperform the 20v you will get for the same price.

[13BT_KE20]

rebuild a smallport 16v and throw that in, will outperform the 20v you will get for the same price.

BINGO!

[beerhead]

rebuild a smallport 16v and throw that in, will outperform the 20v you will get for the same price.

 

20V's get a bad wrap by most QLDers because 99% around here were tuned by Kaizen garage, who's proprietor has no idea how to tune motors IMO. I crap you not, my old 4K with a monster cam and a nikki carb was comparable to Littleredspirits 20V until he found a tuner with some skills, and that's the kind of tune most 20V's around brissy are getting around with!! He thought I was joking when I first said it to him :blinks: Now it really has some pick up.

 

In stock form a good 20V tuned properly will leave any stock 16V for dead, higher compression, longer duration cams, VVT, ITB's, lighter flywheel and internals. Just look at the list, how on earth unless the motor is tuned incorrectly can a single throttle body motor with shorter duration cams, heavier internals and 2KG of extra flywheel mass outperform a 20V unless the 20V was poorly tuned?

 

Done right, most ST 20V owners see up to 95kw atw, which is only just shy of the crank rated power of a smallport.

 

If you cam up a 16V, it will obviously beat a stock 20V, but it'll cost you another $1000 to get the cams and have them setup if you can't do it yourself, on a stock ecu you'll have limited returns as well. Then to do it properly you really should buy a 20V oil pump because they have a metal rotor and don't explode at 8000rpm, then buy 20V quads, ITB adapter and an aftermarket ecu - more $$$, then you say rebuild the thing too another $1000 if your just freshening the motor up.

 

Japanese tuners make 99% of the power of a 16V with a 20V head with the same duration cams. I really think its a non event saying 16 > 20V unless you're building a Formula Atlantic spec 240HP motor.

 

How many 20V's powered cars have you guys been in to compare? I own 1 atm and have been in 4 others.

[LittleRedSpirit]

rebuild a smallport 16v and throw that in, will outperform the 20v you will get for the same price.

 

 

Beerhead said it all. There is less potential in a smallport. The reason a stock one feels good and powerful is the port velocity. If you decide to cam it up, you'd be smart going for a Bigport as they already have much bigger ports and will move more air if the camshaft allows.

 

As previously said a million times, you need to work a 16v smallport a fair bit to outstrip a 20v, and that's a lot more coin spent than simply rwding a 20v, since you will need the ecu to make the smallport accept the cams.

 

Seriously, I see the smallport as the lazy, shortsighted mans 4age, it makes ok power stock and is among the easiest to fit, if you want a smallport for performance your dreaming. May as well start with a Bigport for that, thats what formula atlantic was all about. :blinks:

 

Also, most smallports go for 3-500 dollars, to do a decent rebuild then youd be up for a grand. My 20v cost 800 bucks. Explain the economics of your statement if you dare?

Edited May 12, 2010 by LittleRedSpirit

[Trev]

Beerhead said it all. There is less potential in a smallport. The reason a stock one feels good and powerful is the port velocity. If you decide to cam it up, you'd be smart going for a Bigport as they already have much bigger ports and will move more air if the camshaft allows.

 

As previously said a million times, you need to work a 16v smallport a fair bit to outstrip a 20v, and that's a lot more coin spent than simply rwding a 20v, since you will need the ecu to make the smallport accept the cams.

 

Seriously, I see the smallport as the lazy, shortsighted mans 4age, it makes ok power stock and is among the easiest to fit, if you want a smallport for performance your dreaming. May as well start with a Bigport for that, thats what formula atlantic was all about. :blinks:

 

Also, most smallports go for 3-500 dollars, to do a decent rebuild then youd be up for a grand. My 20v cost 800 bucks. Explain the economics of your statement if you dare?

 

Dunno if anyone can say that better.

 

The only time I ever say don't go 20v is when you already have a 16v installed, The money you spend to convert it is better spent on the 16v.

 

If you go 16v do the bigport and do it properly, JDM manifold etc.

 

If you do a 20v follow the path Matt has done with his, I don't know of a better example of a 20v to this date, Everything is made to make the engine work properly in a RWD setup.

 

A smallport feels good because of the low down torque pick up they have, smallport heads are very restrictive and I have worked with one where everything was done for hi hp and the engine still only made 120hp @ the wheels, I said numerous times to my old boss that the bigport head is far more better for power but he didn't wanna change.

 

I am pretty sure from Brad and Matts input that you will be able to make up your mind quite easily.

[LittleRedSpirit]

20V's get a bad wrap by most QLDers because 99% around here were tuned by Kaizen garage, who's proprietor has no idea how to tune motors IMO.

 

 

That's the other funny thing, no business called Kaizen garage actually exists. Or ever did.

 

So to have a proprietor, a business has to be in a position to need to be managed. This was never a business. Even the actual business that was run in the background has been closed (HMS Automotive). I imagine this business was just exploited for its tax benefits while it was around. This business has never had a trading name, insurance, or a trained person at the helm. The person running this scam is not a tuner, not an auto electrician, not a fabricator. Id be hesitant to even call him a jack of all trades, as that implies skill and knowledge across a broad range of areas.

 

You have been warned.

[Trev]

Ha *gulp* I got my ass reamed for saying the same thing on another forum, Apparently he is the best adaptronic fitter and tuner.

[LittleRedSpirit]

Ha *gulp* I got my ass reamed for saying the same thing on another forum, Apparently he is the best adaptronic fitter and tuner.

 

 

I'm wondering who that's apparent to. Not me. Haha. :blinks:

[Trev]

I'm wondering who that's apparent to. Not me. Haha. :blinks:

 

God know, I seen your email you wanted to send, I will try find the topic on the old twincam forum and PM you, 100% of the people I personally know had a dodgy install and tune one of which I had to re-wire