1st Gen 4afe Vs 2nd Gen 4afe

[Womble1972]

Hi i am rod and I'm new here.

I'm not real good with engines and mech but can swing a spraygun so any questions there i can help just message me.

I am fitting a 4afe into a ae95 i thought the two engines are the same but there is a few differences like knock sensor and a extra port about the size of the ten cent coin below the inlet port for cylinder 1,and what looks like a 7A grey fuel injectors.

I think i have a 2nd gen 4AFE by accident.

Does anyone know what the little port does? it feeds back into the inlet manifold.

What are the other differences i have not found?

Any help would be great.

Rod

Edited April 27, 2010 by Womble1972

[Hiro Protagonist]

Easy way to tell them apart is the early 4AFEs look like a 4AFC, and have the injectors in the head. Late 4AFEs look essentially identical to a 7AFE, with injectors in the intake manifold

 

A bit unsure on what you are describing as fas as that extra hole is concerned, does it lead into the manifold/port? Photos would help.

[Womble1972]

Awesome i will take photos tonight thanks for help.

[GJM85]

I am fitting a 4afe into a ae95 i thought the two engines are the same but there is a few differences like knock sensor and a extra port about the size of the ten cent coin below the inlet port for cylinder 1,and what looks like a 7A grey fuel injectors.

I think i have a 2nd gen 4AFE by accident.

 

Hey I own a 4a-fc. It also has an extra port that runs from the manifold to the head. Well it actually flows into the manifold from the head. In the 1st exaust port there is a small hole which takes exaust gases back through the head and up into the inlet manifold. On the carbi motor the manifold is water cooled and the gases help warm the manifold and to vaporise fuel when the engine is cold.

 

As Hiro previously stated the 1st phase FE motor has direct port injection and there for has no need for early vaporization, where the 2nd phase FE motor has manifold injection and therefore may require assisted heating and fuel vaporization on cold starts.

Edited April 27, 2010 by mirage1172

[Womble1972]

Ok I'm back with pictures

sorry i was wrong the new engine has knock sensor but no extra port.

This is the new engine no port.

This is the old engine with port

Old engine looks like this

New engine looks like this (does not have the alloy ribbed cover like 7A)

Old Manifold with extra port.

new manifold without port.

What do i have here a second gen 4afe? or something else.

again thanks in advance.

[Hiro Protagonist]

It still has the early 4AFE cam-cover, which to me says it's not a late 4AFE.

 

The EFI-S on the cam cover does have me intrigued though, import?

 

From the looks of it, the location of that hole would indicate external oil drain to me, but nothing corresponding on the head. Either that, or it's for the PCV system.

[Womble1972]

Its got carbon build up so i guess the old engine had PCV but the new one does not.

Its either a import or a dog motor made up of parts.

Ill try putting it back together and seeing if it will run.

Thanks for help

[Hiro Protagonist]

Did a bit of research, the EFI-S sticker (if it is genuine/the original cam cover) indicates that it's a 4AFHE engine from a Jap-spec AE95. The H in Toyota-lingo means that it should be higher compression than the normal 4AFE, and a quick check of Wikipedia confirms this. Also, it has 81kw/142Nm compared to a normal 4AFE 78kw/137Nm. Not much, but if it's a healthy motor you should notice a bit of a difference. Would also explain the lack of port/PCV (Jap-spec emissions are often different to Australian ones)

 

Still a 1st Gen 4AF*E though.

[Womble1972]

Thanks Hiro

Ill talk to the guys who supplied it and see if i can get some background on the engine.

I have got friday off i will put it back together and hopefully it goes back in Sat.

Then we see if it will run.

Thank you all for your help

Rod

[zonz540]

Thanks Hiro

Ill talk to the guys who supplied it and see if i can get some background on the engine.

I have got friday off i will put it back together and hopefully it goes back in Sat.

Then we see if it will run.

Thank you all for your help

Rod

 

I have an AE95 with the motor you are currently pulling out of your wagon and a 4AFHE ecu. I have been told a few times by knowledgeable Toyota folks that everything is the same on the two engines, compression included. I am interested to know what the differences really are. I picked up the ecu in hopes that the mapping of the engine would just be more performance based and it would be an easy upgrade, but after installing the ecu, the engine will crank, but simply dies just after. The tach will rev to ~6500 rpm before it dies. Ive done some diagnostics, but don't know where to go next. The things i have checked are fuel pump and a small amount of timing (advancing and retarding slightly).

 

Anybody have any answers?

 

Thanks!

[cheers]

Howdy folks...

Looks like I'm rolla-ing my own mechanicals again....

 

I'm about to embark upon doing up one for my daughter's first. It's a may 93 seca per the plates, has that ultimate safety feature for that driver demographic: you can put the back seats down and there's room enough to crash out in after parties and drive home in the morning.

 

From what I read here and other places, it's got a first gen 4afe motor by the look of injectors into head. It's running fine, though not getting the awesome 8L/100km (city) carbuddy reckons ( and it's only done 300k+, sheesh) and I noticed water d.ripping from the muffler one morning after it had been turned off before it had a chance to warmup: I'm thinking, head gasket, and that head work i was gonna do might be more than a luxury. Doesn't seem to be using coolant or running rough, but I'll bet a compression test would tell a story

 

Anyways, I also happen to have, or will tomorrow afternoon, a complete long 4afe 2nd generation motor/box/starter/alt/ps/driveshafts (but minus the ECU) apparently taken out of a rolled wreck which was had been running fine and "the only thing wrong with was the nut behind the wheel" .

 

Does this sound feasible: if the head of the spare (2nd generation) engine is tickety-boo, can I swap that, wholus-bolus, with it's different injector arrangement, and minus the extra port womble's pointed out, over to the block that's in the car, and use the existing ecu? I'm hoping so, cos from what I see on the ecu's as a part, it just says 4a-fe, therefore same same regardless gen 1 or 2.

 

Cheers,

Cheers

[ae95- wagon kid]

either find a 2nd gen 4afe ecu or just plug in the 1st gen one it should work the same

 

are you sure your head is gone, water dripping out of the exhaust shows a build up of condensation

 

if it had been sitting for a while

 

or it had been cold the night before it could have occured.

 

check your oil if its milky or has air bubbles in it.

 

its a 4afe they are pretty indestructible even the head gaskets have another check before you pull it apart