Twin Turbo?

[Trev]

Anyway, Care too elaborate why my idea is stupid, I was 15 when I thought of it.

[iwontarolla]

Ok for the moment forget about 4cyl engines what are the gains of twin turbos on bigger engines and how are they set up?

[seabiscuit]

Supercharger/Turbo would be a killer setup wouldn't it?

 

Have their been any setups with a centrifugal clutch (or any other cutout system) on the SC? Meaning the SC cuts out to stop it from sapping high end power,

which the turbo takes care of!

 

I'd imagine that this setup would be the ultimate in full rev-range power. Better than a twin turbo setup!

[towe001]

I'm pretty sure it was HKS that did a twin charge for the 4ag.

 

Nissan's March used a twin charge setup

From the Group B rally cars - Lancia Delta S4 is one

Have a google for more. Lot of effort to get it setup and working right

 

And for Ben there was a twin turbo 4 cylinder (if you could call it that) used in group b, it was either Lancia or Audi, i'm pretty sure it was Lancia, that made a twin cam four banger but each cam used both intake and exhaust lobes just like a single cam so that a turbo could be ran on each side of the block.

 

But yeah, very little gain if any for lots and lots of effort and money. If its an inline 4, might be a different story if it was a v4

[ninja-philbo]

ive bin doin a fair bit of research on twin charged setups .. must say they sounds friggin insane

[Taz_Rx]

And for Ben there was a twin turbo 4 cylinder (if you could call it that) used in group b, it was either Lancia or Audi, i'm pretty sure it was Lancia, that made a twin cam four banger but each cam used both intake and exhaust lobes just like a single cam so that a turbo could be ran on each side of the block.

 

Huh!?

 

The S4 was twincharged as you mentioned but its predecessor the 037 was only supercharged.

[Trev]

Well well, Today I spoke to a turbo specialist and put 2 turbo's together like I said above and asked what his opinion was because I was told that it was stupid, He told me that it is not a stupid idea but it will either not work or not be efficient due to not enough heat exchange so Ben stick your head in your ass.

[irokin]

Gee trev, you sure showed me how wrong I was ;)

[Trev]

I'm pretty sure trevs just trolling because thats a really really stupid idea.

 

Anyway, Care too elaborate why my idea is stupid, I was 15 when I thought of it.

 

Gee trev, you sure showed me how wrong I was ;)

 

Well you had no bright input as to why it was a stupid idea, You just wanted to make out I was making shit up to get my post count higher, The way I had always seen it is the engine flows X amount of CC's but put a turbo there and you can make X higher, People probably laughed at the guy that wanted to build the combustion engine too.

[towe001]

Huh!?

 

The S4 was twincharged as you mentioned but its predecessor the 037 was only supercharged.

Took me a while to find it.

Well i was right and wrong

Fiat/Lancia tuning arm Abarth. They called it "modular turbocharging" and it was used in Group S rally

600hp +- a few legs from 1.8litres

[Trev]

Took me a while to find it.

Well i was right and wrong

Fiat/Lancia tuning arm Abarth. They called it "modular turbocharging" and it was used in Group S rally

600hp +- a few legs from 1.8litres

 

You were just been a Troll weren't you ;)

 

This brings me back to the day of a certain red suzuki that I got laughed at about and when I posted the facts there was no reply in site.

[oh what a nissan feeling!]

Well you had no bright input as to why it was a stupid idea, You just wanted to make out I was making shit up to get my post count higher, The way I had always seen it is the engine flows X amount of CC's but put a turbo there and you can make X higher, People probably laughed at the guy that wanted to build the combustion engine too.

 

All you would be doing is creating extra loss into the equation by sticking a extra turbo in between the real thing.

 

What happens when youre little turbo runs out of efficiency?

[Trev]

All you would be doing is creating extra loss into the equation by sticking a extra turbo in between the real thing.

 

What happens when youre little turbo runs out of efficiency?

 

Wouldn't a turbo flow more cc's then say a 1600cc engine?

[irokin]

Wouldn't a turbo flow more cc's then say a 1600cc engine?

 

But heres the problem, the engine flows it at temperature. Substantially so, in excess of 600degC at the head for a turbocharged engine and 50-100degC for the turbo cold side. The net result for the volume of gasses at a fixed temperature produced during combustion is actually negative. Without the expansion due to heat, engines powered by gasoline would not work. For that same reason I suspect this would be the major flaw in your plan. Hot gasses also flow considerably faster than cooler gasses and turbines are designed to exploit this.

 

My other concerns are;

Low response rate due to two lots of inertia to overcome.

No direct feedback loop for exponential boost.

Wasted energy in the dumped air from the large turbos exhaust

Hitting the large compressors surge limit as you would with a turbo using a small turbine and large compressor combo.

 

 

I can't see how this system could provide extra response by adding more complexity nor how it could provide more horsepower being that the small turbine is still going to choke the power.

 

 

Ultimately why not put a small turbine on a large compressor? Surge problems aside isn't this essentially the same thing at its most basic form? Occam's razor: "entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity"

[Trev]

But heres the problem, the engine flows it at temperature. Substantially so, in excess of 600degC at the head for a turbocharged engine and 50-100degC for the turbo cold side. The net result for the volume of gasses at a fixed temperature produced during combustion is actually negative. Without the expansion due to heat, engines powered by gasoline would not work. For that same reason I suspect this would be the major flaw in your plan. Hot gasses also flow considerably faster than cooler gasses and turbines are designed to exploit this.

 

My other concerns are;

Low response rate due to two lots of inertia to overcome.

No direct feedback loop for exponential boost.

Wasted energy in the dumped air from the large turbos exhaust

Hitting the large compressors surge limit as you would with a turbo using a small turbine and large compressor combo.

 

 

I can't see how this system could provide extra response by adding more complexity nor how it could provide more horsepower being that the small turbine is still going to choke the power.

 

 

Ultimately why not put a small turbine on a large compressor? Surge problems aside isn't this essentially the same thing at its most basic form? Occam's razor: "entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity"

 

Thanks, That is what I wanted to hear.