madKE35coupe Posted February 11, 2010 Author Report Posted February 11, 2010 i actually rang john from mr today and asked him abit more about the motor, its actually a 5k with a 3k head. it is actually in the shop for more work believe it or not! he is hopeful to get close to 195 atw.....which i think is bloody unreal. i also asked him about the price of all this work.....aahhh and it would cost about 8 g's.......a little bit more than what i would want to spend. but the bloke that owns that engine holds the record for fastest lap time in its class at morgan park raceway. and john also said that this thing blows twin cam 1800cc motors away.
irokin Posted February 11, 2010 Report Posted February 11, 2010 7K is also a 1.8L :wink: And its kinda... had some work done while his 4A-GE is stocko.
Hiro Protagonist Posted February 11, 2010 Report Posted February 11, 2010 And its kinda... had some work done while his 4A-GE is stocko. Still, claiming that a 1.8L engine which came out in a light-commercial van has more torque than the rev-monsta 1.6L 4AGE isn't exactly earth shattering. Hell, a stock 7K does actually have more torque as a stock bigport, and not much less than a smallport, just at a lot lower revs.
raleigh Posted February 12, 2010 Report Posted February 12, 2010 (edited) hey guys, was down at the local performance shop today. thought i might ask about mods for the trusty ol' 4k while i was there. lo and behold he had one in the shop at the time. the bloke that owns it runs it in his clubman racecar. so i asked him what kind of figures it was putting out, and believe it or not it is puttin out 160 hp normally aspirated! i had never heard of a n/a 4k with this high output before. might sound stupid but i thought you rolla nuts out there might want to hear about it :P Sounds quite possible.In my Historic racing circles this has been going on for 30 years and is no revalation.Last year at Wakefield park at shared a pit garage with a 1962 Austin Healey Sprite.It had the "A series" Austin engine @ 1380cc.It put out 156hp on 98 octane pump fuel.For any one interested check out the swift tune site in the UK.They sell spicey things such as titanium valves,retainers, collets and even Carbon fibre push rods! They regulary build 130 hp street engines for mini's, sprites and mg's.Please don't throw away your twin cam engines just yet, this is top shelf gear and comes at a price.Regards,Raleigh............. Edited February 12, 2010 by raleigh
towe001 Posted February 12, 2010 Report Posted February 12, 2010 Yeah i'm with that as well. Pretty plausible when you start thinking about all the advances thats been made. Specialist cranks (alloy and what not), Alloy rods, pistons. And then on to the head with roller rockers, modified rockers, custom dual (or triple) valve springs, oversized valves. Upping the compression, better fuel, better fuel control. Yadda yadda yadda Years ago i got a book from the library, David Vizard was the author, and one of the things he wrote about was for the under 1litre motor (850cc or something like that) was of modifying the intake ports - filling in, or blocking, the ports and moving them to almost vertical. It was so that the air/fuel mix had a straight shot from the carby to the valve and into the cylinder without a dog-leg. And the bitch side of it is that all the David Vizard books have been pulled from the shelves (re-read that as "stolen")
philbey Posted February 12, 2010 Report Posted February 12, 2010 It's unfortunate we don't seem to get many of the K powered clubman and racecar guys surfacing on the RC, they have some cool stuff and it's usually pretty big budget too.
Felix Posted February 12, 2010 Report Posted February 12, 2010 (edited) I don't understand why anyone would waste so much money on a k series motor, unless it was of course a requirement for some racing class. Look at Billzillas pages and the comparison he made between motors for the Sports1300 class to make 135hp... LOL, the G13b is just a mild street motor. It is interesting to note that the same money/work put into the Suzuki motor would net approx 170-180hp at 10,000rpm. Edited February 12, 2010 by Felix
snot35 Posted February 12, 2010 Report Posted February 12, 2010 Couldn't agree more. These guys would be spending serious coin to get power that could be more easily had more cheaply with an engine swap. I think the only reasons to tune a K motor would be cost, to keep it period, or class restrictions.
mitch82 Posted February 12, 2010 Report Posted February 12, 2010 You can make this power out of a k motor but it will cost you a bit. I have built 3,4 and 5k's for racing clubmans. Alot of you young guys wouldn't know but these motors have been highly developed over a number of years for various racing classes in Australia. The clubman class has been around since the 70's in Australia. Yes they did use Datsun engines too but the Toyota ones were more reliable and more powerfull. Remember we are talking about a full race motor here. The last time we had a 3k on an engine dyno it put out 148hp at the flywheel. We have built many 4k's with around 75-80kw at the wheels. More than what a standard 4age has put out at the wheels. But there is a but to this story, you have to run 48mm webers, a 4 into 1 header with 1 and 5/8 diameter tube, a secret cam grind with over 300 degrees duration, stainless or titanium valves, forged rods, dry sump with an external oil pump, at least 12-1 compression with forged pistons, a custom crome moly flywheel with a borg an beck twin plate clutch...... and the list goes on. By the way they get revved to over 10000 rpm and would get rebuilt every 10 or so hours of racing. They got nicknamed the term hand grenades. So basically you could build one of these engines for about $10,000 from scratch. Luckily I have most of these parts lying around ready for my KE15 when I get it ready, but it will be a 4K, detuned with probarbly about 70kw at the wheels. Should be enough for some fun.
Bamboo Posted February 12, 2010 Report Posted February 12, 2010 (edited) I don't understand why anyone would waste so much money on a k series motor, unless it was of course a requirement for some racing class. Look at Billzillas pages and the comparison he made between motors for the Sports1300 class to make 135hp... LOL, the G13b is just a mild street motor. It is interesting to note that the same money/work put into the Suzuki motor would net approx 170-180hp at 10,000rpm. The thing I like about the suzi engines is it's all alloy. Have all the horses in the world but weight is always a factor. I had a standard "well tuned" early civic which I drove off the clock. 160+ according to the speedo. I'd love to see a rolla with an alloy engine!!! I realise this goes against rolla love, but car companies that make bikes KNOW engines! Edited February 12, 2010 by Bamboo
towe001 Posted February 12, 2010 Report Posted February 12, 2010 The thing I like about the suzi engines is it's all alloy. You and me both. The only thing i have to bitch about the G-series twincam head is that the dizzy is at the back of the head and that it'd take a bit of money to have it changed. But then again the cap from a 323 and its modified rotor button can fit...
mitch82 Posted February 12, 2010 Report Posted February 12, 2010 You say you don't know why people would spend this amount on a K series motor. What you don't realise is that there was not anything better around when these engines were developed as a race motor in their day. 4ages didn't exist, the only alternative was a Cosworth BDA but in clubman or formula 3 you couldn't use them. If you were lucky enough to race in a class that could use a Cosworth and you blew it up, you were better off walking in front of a truck. Most of the K series engines around now are used in historic racing and they have to use them!! Get the picture?
towe001 Posted February 12, 2010 Report Posted February 12, 2010 Most of the K series engines around now are used in historic racing and they have to use them!! Get the picture? Oh yes i know the reason why a crap load of money is spent on the K series. Class restrictions, historic. But from my point of view i'd be sticking with a 4k or if i upped to a twin cam it'd be a suzuki g13b or the g16b and not the bucket of bolts 4ag
Bamboo Posted February 12, 2010 Report Posted February 12, 2010 You and me both. The only thing i have to bitch about the G-series twincam head is that the dizzy is at the back of the head and that it'd take a bit of money to have it changed. But then again the cap from a 323 and its modified rotor button can fit... t man..the same engine is in the the sierras. That high dizzy is perfect when crossing a river. Different strokes 4 different folks!
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