Ke35 Brakes And Suspension. Lots Of Q's

[crispyke35]

Hi all

 

I own a 1975 ke35 which is going to be used for hill climb racing i am in the process of organizing my suspension and brake upgrades and need some questions answered. Also i can do the work myself but at the moment I'm am trying to reduce the amount of potential hiccups that occur in a build. I have been doing my research and would like some of peoples experiences with what i have thought could be a good set up. Here goes;

 

Front struts

 

I have read plently about using xt130 front corona struts for bigger disc size but i have come across a few problems so i don't really hand over money to the wreckers yet.

 

- will the struts fit inside the strut tower of the corolla ? if not how much mucking around is involved in welding in the corolla spring seat ?

- also is it really worth all the trouble or should i just put some really good pads in the existing set up?

 

Negative Camber

 

-Should i bother putting in xt130 lower control arms or will i just scrap out my tyres heaps with no real cornering gain? what are peoples experiences

 

Springs & Leafs

 

I have heard of people using 6kg sierra, cut falcon (trying to avoid this) and various lowered springs like king springs.

Considering i want the car to handle not bounce all over the place when i hit a bump what should i go for ? also keeping in mind I'm looking at hillclimb (tight corners), not trying to build a 4k drift pig.

 

Again same with the leafs i don't want steel bars that make the back end skip around, but need stiff enough to reduce body roll. i am looking at resetting plus add a leaf (five all up) will this be to stiff or about right?

 

Shocks

 

I know i may be crucified by some, but will heavy duty monroe's suffice. Ive heard of commo rear wagon shocks and mucking around with expensive inserts with ae86 stuff but is there any real gain that I'm likely to be dissapointed if i go the cheaper option? Basically looking for a decent set that will fit all round.

 

 

Swaybars

 

Basically i probably won't run a locker so how big should i have the rear sway bars before i spin out with one wheel around tight stuff. should i just run a locker, deal with it and go big swaybar in the rear?

 

hopefully someone can give me a few answers to my confusion. i think it's a case of way to many options. :bash:

 

Cheers

[son of stig]

hey mate yeah lots of options, all a matter of opinion.

 

you sound very much like me about 18 months ago. this is what i went with in my 4age ke55 coupe.

 

after playing around with corolla bits i decided they werent up to the job, so went with xt130 front struts and brakes (sumitomo twin pots). when looking for performance pads, escort ones fit, just need to ever so slightly drill out the mounting pin holes.

brakes a hell of a lot better so i considered it worth the messing around.

 

the corona spring will NOT fit into the corolla sturt tower. to remedy this, you chop the bottom spring seat off the corona struts, and weld ke35 spring seat on. then use ke35 springs and top hat and it will all bolt up. i went with a heavy duty king spring.

 

using the corona steering arms/ control arms gives a healthy of camber (by no means ridiculous like the sigma arms on ke70s).

 

rear has an added and reset leaves, and kyb struts.

 

whiteline heavy duty sway bar up front, standard rear.

 

car sits exactly on minimum legal height, brakes a whole lot better, and handles like a dream. if anything id go maybe a bit stiffer on the front springs.

 

all very cheap to do if you know where to look/ what to do.

 

Hope that helps

Paul

Edited June 4, 2009 by son of stig

[Falken_KE30]

using the corona steering arms/ control arms gives a healthy of camber (by no means ridiculous like the sigma arms on ke70s).

 

From what i know the XT130 LCA is the Same as all KE3x KE5x models. so i don't see how they add camber?

Only arm that will give camber in a this model rolla is sigma. or convert to coilovers and run camber tops.

[coln72]

I found that a standard KE55 rear bar was overkill on my KE35 as it would single spin to a stand still on some roundabouts.

 

If you can, double up on the front bar (I ran a bar from a Selby Mazda kit in addition to the standard one). Made a hell of a difference.

 

I would look at something better than standard as far as brakes go. I could kill the brakes on a decent blast through the hills (Ke70 discs and calipers front and Ke55 drums rear).

[Boost+k]

as far as I'm aware the xt130 arms are the same as ke35, so if you wanted extra camber and track you'll need to run the sigma ones, should be 15mm longer than yours now, ive never done a xt130 upgrade to a corolla but i think you should check the steering arm length differances, when i fitted 86 stuff to a mates car a while ago we used the p/s arm it was pretty much the same length as the standard 35 arm, if we fitted m/s arms then it would have had slower steering and less lock, so look into this before spending $

 

i wouldnt run a rear bar without lsd or locker, if it was my car i would run a locker and ke55 rear bar

 

and IMO shocks that are valved to suit your springs are the most important upgrade, it would be the one place i would spend money, everything else can be sourced fairly cheaply, i also wouldnt bother with kings etc... i would just get some custom springs made for the front, i always though the rear leafs were quite firm once you had decent shocks to control them, had konis with standard leafs in rear of a ke35 a few years back and i liked it

 

i donno what height your going for but i would also recomend you look into some RCA's if its dropped by 50mm or more, they make it sooo much nicer to drive

 

its all a matter of opinion and driving style tho

[silverra23]

I am upgrading my KE35 race car with this stuff as we speak.

 

I am going to be running:

 

XT130 struts, modified to coil overs using a HSD coil over kit (otomoto sell these at an excellent price)

XT130 2 pot Sumitomo calipers (may convert these to hilux 4 pots later) - it would appear the pad shape is the same as early Datsun Z cars and MkII Escorts, making race brake pads relatively easy to come by.

6kg springs (335 lbs in the old money) - not entirely sure whether this spring is right, but I am told its a good starting point

Koni off car adjustable inserts - Part number is 86-1991 Sport - revalved by Toperformance to suit the heavier springs & racing application

Cusco camber tops

Standard KE35 LCA's as they are the same length as the XT130

AE86 power steering knuckles (you could also use standard Xt130 ones here, but I am told the AE86 power steer ones speed up the steering ratio a little)

Peugeot ventilated discs modified to suit the Corona strut (there is lots of info on this conversion on www.toymods.net)

Pajero NB master cylinder to improve the pedal feel with the bigger brakes (going to try it with the standard one first - also told an 03-06 Camry non-ABS master cylinder fits and works better for the stock brake lines)

15 inch superlites to go over the increased brake package - 14 inch wheels will go over this though, depending on the offset

 

On the rear my car runs inverted leaf springs, but I don't know what spec they are, and a Koni adjustable shock.

 

The car also has a K-mac sway bar on the front which I think is 24mm if I recall correctly.

 

And I run a CIG locker in a T-series (Celica) rear end which gives me bigger drums on the rear than standard Ke35.

 

You mention putting 6kg springs in the rear - unless something has been modded in your car, it will have leaf springs, not coils, so all that talk of modded Falcon springs etc will not apply.

 

For hillclimbing I think you may well find the Corona stuff is over kill if you are just starting out. I have done a number of track days on the standard Ke35 rotor which had a Ke70 caliper adapted to it and using a Race Brakes pad that was designed for the rear of Commodore cup cars. It stopped well and took quite a hammering. I will soon be selling the old struts/brakes out of my car with a set of new pads as I am sure they would be a good upgrade over the standard stuff.

 

If budget was more of an issue I would look at putting KYB Excel-G shocks in your car front and rear - they are a good performance shock without breaking the bank.

 

There are some photos of my progress in my rides thread if you want to have a look.

Edited June 5, 2009 by silverra23

[son of stig]

I thought there was some slight difference between the corona and corolla arms but there you go, apparently i put in corona arms for no reason.

[RedKE30]

AE86 power steering knuckles (you could also use standard Xt130 ones here, but I am told the AE86 power steer ones speed up the steering ratio a little)

 

Can anyone confirm this? Should be the same for KE30 sedan?

[silverra23]

Its been confirmed here before hence why I am doing it :bash:

 

Will be the same for all ke3* and ke55

 

Can only be used if you are using the Corona struts though - the bolt spacing on the bottom of the strut that attaches to the steering knuckle suits the Ae86 one. A standard Ke3*/55 strut will not bolt up to the Ae86/Corona steering knuckle as they are narrower by a couple of mm.

Edited June 5, 2009 by silverra23

[RedKE30]

Its been confirmed here before hence why I am doing it :bash:

 

Will be the same for all ke3* and ke55

 

Can only be used if you are using the Corona struts though - the bolt spacing on the bottom of the strut that attaches to the steering knucklele suits the Ae86 one. A standard Ke3*/55 strut will not bolt up to the Ae86/Corona steering knuckle as they are narrower by a couple of mm.

 

Sweet, yeah I'm using corona struts, getting converted to coilovers by ######, w/ hilux/pug brake upgrade.

[silverra23]

the #### man will have the steering knuckles in stock I am tipping

[dfunkt]

what did the pads from race brakes cost you silver?? and could i call them up and they'll know what i'm on about??

 

or could i buy the new pads you're selling?

[silverra23]

Yes he is very good to deal with. The pad shape is DB1088 which is near enough identical to the Commodore rear number DB1086.

 

I think the compound is Comp2 if I recall correctly.

 

Happy to sell the ones I have brand new in a box. Cost me $186 delivered, so guess I would be hoping for $150.

 

Adam

[dfunkt]

cheers Adam,

 

if you can hold them until the August TCCAV meeting, i'll grab them from you then, as i can't attend the June or July meetings due to TAFE and holidays.

 

else i'll just get them after i get back.

 

dF

[silverra23]

All good :bash: