Buildup For Ethanol - Ideas And Disucssion On How To

[philbey]

Guys,

 

I've mentioned before that I want to do build my Motor with the plan to run E85 if I can get my hands on it. I thought I'd post up my general thought on what parts and plans I have to overcome some of the issues with Ethanol. PLEASE don't make this some kind of ethical food supply debate, nor am I interested in hearing advice from "peoples qualified mates" or the various Pro and Anti ethanol conspiracies, I've come across them all before.

 

Here are my plans:

 

Carby - DHLA's will give me ample room to tune for the extra fuel supply required, with experimentation i will be able to quickly swap jets between straight fuel and Ethanol. Will take some Trial and error. Still need to confirm that they wont dissolve, but I should be right.

 

Ignition - I'm going to leave my dizzy stock without vac advance, but the cam timing will give me quite a lot of total advance. I'm going to chuck in a Crane Hi6 with a Timing retard controller, so I can dial it back for Petrol and dial it up for Ethanol. I've come across anecdotal evidence of people running up to 40 Degrees advance and still seeing power gains with high Ethanol mixes!

 

Fuel System - Jury is out about the mechanical pump being able to handle the ethanol. I wont worry about it too much, I'll upgrade to a Facet. I'm still chasing info on whats compatible with Alchohol, I think I'll just stick one in and take a risk. Maybe drop a spare in the boot. I also discovered Mallory make a Fuel Water separator filter, which I will chuck in with a drain on it, this will reduce the risk of saturation in the tank. Adelaide is damn dry, so I should be fine anyway. I'll also chuck a couple of extra filters in the line because I might have issues with the Ethanol giving my tank a good cleanout of the crap!

 

Tuning - I will get the car running on Petrol for a few months, while I gather the goodies for an Ethanol run. This is just to bug fix anything from the build of the engine first, before I add more variable. I might even buy a wideband O2 to really get the tune sorted out properly.

 

Please ask away any questions, or if you've researched this/tried this, let me know what you came across.

 

TP

Edited December 12, 2008 by philbey

[towe001]

New EFI hose is safe to be used with ethanol, or at least thats what they say...

 

Not really fussed on that Mallory Water separator, looks kinda like a normal filter. Would sooner have one that has a clear section with a drain plug...

More like this one Drainable Fuel / Water Separator Kit

[philbey]

Yeh you can get a Mallory drain bowl as well, actually that unit looks identical.

 

I figured most modern fuel hose would be Ethanol proof, whether EFI or not. Anything Viton based should do it.

[corolla_bitten]

hey there, I'm not one of those people who now everything about this topic but i am very interested in doing the same thing, do you know if the ethanol will have a effect on the valves and seats, and what about the lubrication of the cylinder bores, will the alcohol disolve the oil on the bore walls and the rings on the cylinder, i want a similar setup for my new hill climb and track car. i was going to bend up a new fuel system out of alloy or stainless fuel pipe to get rid of rubber hoses all together, it just so happens work uses the same material. thanks dylan

[Trev]

I believe that it has been supplied to a few race teams and is being used straight out of the bottle with a little timing advance and is good for a 30hp increase.

[Jason]

Little water dissolved in the fuel is not the end of the world as long as you can control the rust. People actuality purposely do it as another way of 'water injection' with out an additional system.

 

I too plan on doing ethanol ready motor for my next car, but will be using a computer.

Edited December 13, 2008 by Jason

[white_sandshoe]

I believe that it has been supplied to a few race teams and is being used straight out of the bottle with a little timing advance and is good for a 30hp increase.

 

 

My uncle runs straight Ethanol in his Midget Sprint car. Horsepower increase is around the 25-30% mark (also seen in Street Machine mag... they did an E85 V8 build about two months ago and from memory found a 28% increase...) but you'll need to flow about that much additional fuel.

 

My uncle's problem is he hasn't taken the time to set up his fuel regulator properly, and constantly floods his engine... anyways...

 

Oh, as far as valves and seats go, my understanding is that Ethanol runs cooler, similar to Methanol, so you shouldn't have any problems there.

[Trev]

My uncle runs straight Ethanol in his Midget Sprint car. Horsepower increase is around the 25-30% mark (also seen in Street Machine mag... they did an E85 V8 build about two months ago and from memory found a 28% increase...) but you'll need to flow about that much additional fuel.

 

My uncle's problem is he hasn't taken the time to set up his fuel regulator properly, and constantly floods his engine... anyways...

 

Oh, as far as valves and seats go, my understanding is that Ethanol runs cooler, similar to Methanol, so you shouldn't have any problems there.

 

Ah yeah it was a % not a figure, There was a disscussion around the smoko table at work where a few of the guys that used it told my boss about it and i do remember them saying about the extra flow to run the fuel.

[white_sandshoe]

Ah yeah it was a % not a figure, There was a disscussion around the smoko table at work where a few of the guys that used it told my boss about it and i do remember them saying about the extra flow to run the fuel.

 

 

It's one of those things... If you calculate out the saving from using E85 (We don't get it over here anywhere i've heard of, but I understand it's a bit cheaper than regular fuel) and then take into account the additional amount you'd be needing to put into your engine, it kinda balances out, however, you'll still be getting the performance benefit, so it makes sense to run it.

 

Kinda like free power???

[Sam_Q]

I know its only a small thing but right now i am getting my 20v tuned for e10 98 octane fuel. I will do some runs with normal 98 octane fuel and see if theres muc of a power difference

[philbey]

Let us know how that goes Sam.

 

The water thats dissolved in the fuel isn't an issue. The problem arises when the ethanol becomes saturated with water and it seperates out of the fuel mix, then it will cause problems.

[orangeLJ]

Google Methanol engines and grab some tips from there.

 

Pretty much everything that applies to running methanol will in someway apply to running an E85 (maybe on a lesser scale, but the theory from it is still good)

 

Bump up your compression, in most circles E85 is now reffered to as "street legal methanol"

 

Can run 13-14:1 compression easily.

[philbey]

I forgot all about that - Methanol is a bit more damaging than Ethanol I think, and tuning wise probably has similar issues!

 

Wicked. I'll be running quite high Comp anyway, in the 11s.

[orangeLJ]

yeah methanol seems to be a bit harsher in terms of fuel lines and what it will eat through (plastics etc)

 

But yeah, the principles remain the same for tuning and fuel systems.

[toyocharged]

going to tune my 20V bt with e85 in the new year, the engine will be freshen, more squeeze on the cr and bigger injectors, play with timing hoping for over 200hp it made 185hp on 98 last time on the engine dyno, will post details once its tuned

Edited December 16, 2008 by toyocharged