Hybrid Hydrogen Kits

[Budowski]

as the topic says.

 

I'm interested in the whole saving money on fuel

 

a guy at work has some kinda designs on how to do it which ill be getting a copy of

 

anyone messed around with this yet ?

[WinKE55]

Uh. Could you post a link to inform people like me who have not heard of this before?

 

I thought only PLG and petrol and Diesel was our fuel? Oh and some electricity that the Hybrids run, I think is that what you are talking about?

Edited June 26, 2008 by WinKE55

[Budowski]

Uh. Could you post a link to inform people like me who have not heard of this before?

 

I thought only PLG and petrol and Diesel was our fuel? Oh and some electricity that the Hybrids run, I think is that what you are talking about?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Hydrogen-Ge...sspagenameZWDVW

 

just google hydrogen kits and its was on one of the ACA or Today tonight shows some mechanics and an engineer got one to work apprently

 

its a container with a plate in it which has current going throught it while emersed in water which gives off gas and feeds into the intake duct of an efi car is my basic understanding

[WinKE55]

Yes. If an electric current is ran through water it creates the Hydrogen gas. Good way to make a bomb. So becareful playing with it..

 

Thanks for that too. I wasn't even aware people were doing this. Seems it would save fuel. Though then the next thing would be electricity. Batteries will increase or something stupid.

Edited June 26, 2008 by WinKE55

[trd]

working on one ATM. easy to build

 

 

info here:

Chapter10_1_.pdf

Edited June 26, 2008 by trd

[Budowski]

Yes. If an electric current is ran through water it creates the Hydrogen gas. Good way to make a bomb. So becareful playing with it..

 

Thanks for that too. I wasn't even aware people were doing this. Seems it would save fuel. Though then the next thing would be electricity. Batteries will increase or something stupid.

haha bomb yeah i know what ya mean ill try and be careful

 

read about some guy in america testing the kit with a match LOL! blew it outa his hand but no injuries

[philbey]

just google hydrogen kits and its was on one of the ACA or Today tonight shows some mechanics and an engineer got one to work apprently

 

ACA and Today tonight - you just got stooged man! haha. Those shows always have crackpot shit like this.

 

While you're on google, have a search for:

 

-Browns Gas

-Over Unity

-Aether

-Perpetual motion

 

and

 

-The laws of the conservation of energy.

[Hiro Protagonist]

Got to love the fact that the electrolysis of the water to produce the hydrogen gas will use more power than you can get by actually burning the hydrogen......so therefore you might as well run the car off the electricity. Occam's Razor and the Second Law of Thermodynamics at work.

[Jason]

Ive read reports of people running hydrogen cells (hersay...) and report of same efficiency as conventional fuels.

 

Nothing special just a container with eletrodes. I made one ages ago with a welder as a power source and some graphite eletrodes.

 

From what i remember, it requires more energy to break up the water molecule than what you get from the hydrogen burning. But I'm not sure of that, either that or its breaks even. IIRC the water is in its lowest energy state at that temp therefore to use it, have to raise its energy to split it up, then use the gas. So you wont break even.

 

Now thinking of it 100% efficiency is like wow. Ive already forgotten all the thermo I lernt :P

Edited June 29, 2008 by Jason

[7shades]

I had a little setup running a mower engine. It wasn't fully closed loop, but I'd say it had about a 75% return...

 

I think if you applied the technology to a conventional car engine you may need one extra battery to get the same range as a full tank of dino-juice, but still... plug it in to recharge when you're not using it and you've at least got (almost) free fuel on your conventional combustion engine...

[Budowski]

I had a little setup running a mower engine. It wasn't fully closed loop, but I'd say it had about a 75% return...

 

I think if you applied the technology to a conventional car engine you may need one extra battery to get the same range as a full tank of dino-juice, but still... plug it in to recharge when you're not using it and you've at least got (almost) free fuel on your conventional combustion engine...

I'm glad ive found a topic that gets everyones brains going, nice to see some smart people out there.

 

so far from what i under stand in the plans ive read its a certain amperage and with plate design and material used its as efficent as it can be without spending thousands of dollars

 

its also only supposed to be a hybrid setup to supplement the fuel thats already being used thus changing the way the engine runs to use as little fossil fuel as possible.

 

it has been explained to be only a 20% saving on fossil fuels. roughly

[grandma KE30]

'Philbey' and 'Hiro Protagonist' are right I'm afraid

this is because what you are adding to your car is water, which by the process off electrolisis (with power being used from your car engine/battery) is being converted in hydrogen and oxygen gas.

then what happens when you burn the hydrogen it turns back into water water (this is because the hydrogen and oxygen atoms combine with heat, ie burning and produce H2O, ie water)

now the amount of energy required to split up the water molecule is exaclty the same as the amount of energy that is put off when the hydrogen oxygen mixture is burnt and the molecule reforms again.

so even if we assume that the system will run at 100% efficency (which of course it wont, it will never get anywhere near 100%) then the system will still be not acutally adding any energy to your car. And as its not running at anywhere near 100% efficency then all it will be infact doing is putting unecessary strain on your altanator, battery, while still not increasing fuel economy.

 

note: if you have a tank of hydrogen than this is a different matter, as no energy is required to 'produce' the hydrogen gas. also i have a feeling that a "hydrogen fuel cell" isnt the same as running your engine on hydrogen. Honda have made one, see http://world.honda.com/news/2008/4080616First-FCX-Clarity/ if your really interested, but the idea of a hydrgoen fuel cell, is that its not used in the same way as an internal combustion egnine, but rather to power an electric motor, which will then power the wheels on the car (this 'hydrogen fuel cell car' uses a tank of hydrogen however.)

 

hope that this helps.

[Hiro Protagonist]

'Philbey' and 'Hiro Protagonist' are right I'm afraid

this is because what you are adding to your car is water, which by the process off electrolisis (with power being used from your car engine/battery) is being converted in hydrogen and oxygen gas.

then what happens when you burn the hydrogen it turns back into water water (this is because the hydrogen and oxygen atoms combine with heat, ie burning and produce H2O, ie water)

now the amount of energy required to split up the water molecule is exaclty the same as the amount of energy that is put off when the hydrogen oxygen mixture is burnt and the molecule reforms again.

so even if we assume that the system will run at 100% efficency (which of course it wont, it will never get anywhere near 100%) then the system will still be not acutally adding any energy to your car. And as its not running at anywhere near 100% efficency then all it will be infact doing is putting unecessary strain on your altanator, battery, while still not increasing fuel economy.

 

note: if you have a tank of hydrogen than this is a different matter, as no energy is required to 'produce' the hydrogen gas. also i have a feeling that a "hydrogen fuel cell" isnt the same as running your engine on hydrogen. Honda have made one, see http://world.honda.com/news/2008/4080616First-FCX-Clarity/ if your really interested, but the idea of a hydrgoen fuel cell, is that its not used in the same way as an internal combustion egnine, but rather to power an electric motor, which will then power the wheels on the car (this 'hydrogen fuel cell car' uses a tank of hydrogen however.)

 

hope that this helps.

 

 

Correct - there are two kinds of hydrogen-powered cars that are feasible, and both run gas tanks as opposed to water. In a straight hydrogen combustion engine, it's basically the same as running LPG except you have liquid hydrogen (due to the storage pressure) instead of LPG. This produces veeeeery little to no emissions provided mixture is kept correct, as the only by-product of hydrogen and oxygen combustion is water vapour, but you have to take into account the nitrogen in the air and excess oxygen in the combustion (due to wrong mixtures), so you can still get NOx in the exhaust, but no carbon monoxide or dioxide. Biggest problem is that it still retains the poor efficiency (~20-30% in ideal conditions) of an internal combustion engine.

 

Second is a fuel cell, which feeds hydrogen and oxygen gas into a fuel cell, and the resulting reaction produces electricity. This electricity is then used to power electric motors in the wheels/transmission. Once again, no carbon monoxide or dioxide emissions, just water. And quite efficient, too