Supercharger Vs Turbo

[wasfishing]

Well said, i have always noticed that the Sc superchargers just felt like you put a bigger motor

in, stacks of bottom end, but they trail of with power the same way a na motor does up top, good fun

for about 10 minutes doing skids, than after that i get totally bored as they have absolutely nothing in the top end.

 

Whereas the midrange torque of a turbocharger and top end is totaly opposite. I woudn't say the

supercharged motor makes more torque, they just make it in a different part of the

powerband.

The top fueller debate is pointless, it is a class of racing to a set of rules, like most classes, as so far from anything

resembling whats good for a street car

cheers

darren

 

The sc12 has no power in the top end but the sc14 does, depends on what supercharger and how its setup, you can't just say all superchargers run out of power in the top end as its just not true.

 

Also important to note

a supercharger style of compressing the air means it creates alot more heat and we all know that the colder your charge air the more of it you can jam down the neck of your lovely engine while you are giving it 8000 rpm around a corner!!! now if the supercharger is giving us hotter air this is not a good thig. as air heats up it expands and becomes less dens. a turbo will also heat air up as it compressors it (hence all the fmic on turbo cars) but not as much. i knew some one with a sc14 supercharger that ran it on a mini and he was telling me that at 13 psi the teflone coating on the lobes of the sc starts to brake down and they die! a turbo is (on paper) better! rember you will need to have a good supply of oil to keep it alive!! which means running lines and modifing your sump. but then again a 10psi hit of boost as soon as you put your foot down with a super charger is allways fun to! the SC will be easier.

 

I doint know about the teflone coating coming off at 13psi unless the sc14 was really flogged out, i know of sc14s running at 17psi daily without a problem....

 

My business partners supercharged tonner is an interesting machine. Scary amount of power on a blown LS!. Hes got the kappa kit for 6psi on a standard motor. Its a very turbo looking unit, it just mounts on a bracket, and spins on a multirib belt. The belt slips all the time and needs upgrading to a Gilmer driver.

 

Funny thing is, if you drive the car, its actually got a coupe thousand rpm of lag until it takes off. When you rev it out though, its insane!!

 

If it were me Id go turbo cause Id like to design a system which still lets me rev to 8000rpm plus.

 

Sounds like a cetrifical (think thats what there called) supercharger, basically the rear housing of a turbo with a pulley mated to the front, also sound like he needs to tension the belt, had that problem before,

 

 

Depend what you want from your car mate, power from idle and wikid supercharger wine or do u prefer waiting abit longer for the turbo to spool? either way u will be able to get decent power

[Felix]

a supercharger style of compressing the air means it creates alot more heat and we all know that the colder your charge air the more of it you can jam down the neck of your lovely engine while you are giving it 8000 rpm around a corner!!! now if the supercharger is giving us hotter air this is not a good thig. as air heats up it expands and becomes less dens. a turbo will also heat air up as it compressors it (hence all the fmic on turbo cars) but not as much. i knew some one with a sc14 supercharger that ran it on a mini and he was telling me that at 13 psi the teflone coating on the lobes of the sc starts to brake down and they die! a turbo is (on paper) better! rember you will need to have a good supply of oil to keep it alive!! which means running lines and modifing your sump. but then again a 10psi hit of boost as soon as you put your foot down with a super charger is allways fun to! the SC will be easier.

 

I've heard of guys running the toyota blowers in drawthru mode on datsun Aseries motors, having condensation form on the blower under boost. Obviously they are running the blowers well inside their efficiecy range at well under the blowers maximum rated rpm. The fuel vapour running through them has an intercooling effect. Naturally there are drawbacks to anything and in this case a backfire wouldn't be a good thing.

 

A supercharger is safer when it comes to tuning and detonation, as the cylinder pressures are more constant at full load throughout the entire rev range. A turbo motor will see low cylinder pressures off boost and pressures will increase dramatically when the turbo comes on boost.

 

Each form of forced induction has its' negatives and positives. There are an awful lot of variables to consider including component selection, boost levels, charge cooling, compression ratios, timing etc.

[Shuvae86]

why does everyone on the forum want to turbo 4ks!!!???

 

they ARE a GOOD engine, for economy and reliability

 

but i u want a turbo use a 4age, 4agze, ca18det, or sr20det or something similar

 

something with EFI that doesnt require constant tuning

 

at the end of the day its still a 1.3 and will require constand maintainence

 

if u like ur 1.3's that much get a 13b!

 

one of many failed 4kt attempts

 

http://www.ae86drivingclub.com.au/board/in...=30223&st=0

 

don't get me wrong hes a good mechanic... its just something about a 30 yr old 1.3 carbie engine with forced induction that doesnt do it for me

[Taz_Rx]

Shuva, did you read any of that thread!!!?? I only had to read the first post.....

 

......pitty i never got it tuned

 

That would explain why it didn't run the best, and I bet he didn't do anything timing wise which would explain the running hot (but thats ultimately just a 20+ year old heater core) and the blown head gaskets.

 

There's 2 different types of backyard mechanics.....

Those who actually know what they are doing,....and those who can't really be f@$ked finding out what they need to do! :poke:

[Palmy]

if you do decide to supercharge it, please don't make it sound like this... lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNtg9R4Ngio

[WinKE55]

That sounds kind of nasty. Prefer a distinct whine then a weird noise like that haha

[irokin]

That sounds kind of nasty. Prefer a distinct whine then a weird noise like that haha

 

I imagine you'd also prefer your supercharger to be connected to something too? Just a guess? lol

[untubbed_20]

Little red- thats a centrifugal blower, more like a turbo but spun of the motor, they make more boost as

revs rise, A properly matched turbo will make a lot more mid range torque than these and more top end.

They are easy on drivetrains through, with a smooth power delivery.

 

Was fishin as we are talking about turbo vs superchargers and more the rootes style of supercharger.

Rootes style of superchargers have no top end, they feel like a big motor, and compared to a turbo

they have NO top end , when talking about pump fuelled street cars( which is the biggy as rootes superchargers

heats soak the f@$k out of everything and to make any power need something other than pump fuel to stop

them pinging there guts out, even worse most aren't intercooled)

cheers

darren

[WinKE55]

What supercharger is small than a SC12? And what boost levels are they recommended at?

[Guest Sbox]

Deleted

Edited May 24, 2008 by Sbox

[orangeLJ]

I don't know much about the engine you are discussing, But i do know my superchargers!

 

SC14s are known to tear the teflon from the rotors when spun at 13000RPM+

 

this isnt saying they all will do it, but a fair load of them do.

 

Eaton make some fairly well designed twin screw and root style blowers. The M45 would be reasonably easy to adapt to any engine, have a good level of boost for a smaller capacity engine.

 

The centrifugal Superchargers (like the Vortech range) are essentially, running on the same way as a turbo (obviously minus the exhaust proppelled rotors). Alot of guys are seeing very good power gains from these, and they are also ALOT easier to pipe intercoolers for. (EDIT: then a roots or screw type blower)

 

Also to maintain fuel economy when running a supercharger setup, it is possible to run a vacuum operated "bypass" valve. This is fitted to the intake side of the supercharger (between the air filter and the unit) and under low revolutions, bypasses the supercharger. This helps to stop the parisitic characteristics that some blowers can show (also makes them alot nicer on idle +take off)

 

As has already been said, you will have positives and negatives in every setup. Poke around, ask questions and see what is actually readily available for your needs, and also, weigh up how much fab work you could do yourself, and the cost of both setups (SC and Turbo). No use paying an extra couple thousand for something that will only (theoretically) make slightly more horsepower.

 

Also, just a closing point, Horsepower isnt everything. Torque is a major factor in acceleration. To really find the "best" setup, you need to analyse dyno charts and look at the power curve. Something may have a nice peak power, but if it has a shithous curve, its not going to be all that succesful.

 

cheers,

Chris

Edited May 14, 2008 by orangeLJ

[yoda69]

Has anyone ever twincharged a 4k?

turbo for shore.

.boost from 2pound upto 30pounds at your finger tips.

if ya misses has to go to the shop in it ,turn it down.

.supercharger pick your boost.unless your willing to change a pully

on the side of the road.thats it he beat ya.turbo flick the switch

give it 10 pound extra and cream him.

it gives you an option.do ya need 12 pounds of boost to go to the

shop to get a bie.

dragsters well ? how long do them motors last.

the turbos are coming.

carbies yeah ,had blow through setup.suck through aswell.

all run sweat.

[irokin]

hehe I forgot about this thread. I was at a track day recently (no shit!) and there was a guy with a 600hp supercharged VT commodore. I thought it was hilarious that he was changing supercharger belts every 3-4 sessions because the supercharger was drawing so much power off the crank and just shredding gilmore belts. Meanwhile a few pit bays down I slap some fuel in after 4 sessions and I'm good for another 4.

[yoda69]

hehe I forgot about this thread. I was at a track day recently (no shit!) and there was a guy with a 600hp supercharged VT commodore. I thought it was hilarious that he was changing supercharger belts every 3-4 sessions because the supercharger was drawing so much power off the crank and just shredding gilmore belts. Meanwhile a few pit bays down I slap some fuel in after 4 sessions and I'm good for another 4.

an you would have drove yours home .

[irokin]

an you would have drove yours home .

 

heheheh yea. Whats even more funny is that my car runs the same kind of lap times as he does... with a mere 255hp... on street tyres