Sherridan Is Getting A Makeover.

[white_sandshoe]

Hi all.

 

This is my third foray into the world of engine building… Past experiences include 22r rebuild (was supposed to be the indestructible car… my sister rolled it doing 40kph. long story... engine still goes like a dream) and a 253 Vee-ate that was intended for a one tonner, but never made it as I couldn’t find a cab for the damn thing.

 

This time around I am aiming some fairly unique ideas at my KE20, Sherridan. (Sherri for short…)

 

I’ve had her for almost a year, and the stock as a rock 3K is feeling really really tired after racking up 280 thousand on the clock… Time for a makeover!

 

The thoughts so far are as follows…

 

3K Block Rebuilt/Balanced (considering forged slugs, but wondering if stockies will hold up…)

4K Head Ported/Polished (to lower compression… Am I right figuring it’d be about 8.2:1???)

T28 Turbo from RB20DET Exhaust housing and turbine removed/replaced with pulley system to engine. Drive pulley boost referenced to engine/cams (around 14psi-ish…)

Tighe cam 113 or 154 (just a guess looking at the stats… any other suggestions?)

4K-E inlet (cheap EFI) (not so cheap after work to match boost…)

Option 2 is modify the hell out of my brothers Accord EFI system he has lying around… I figure I’ll be chasing similar power figures as he’s putting out and moving similar amounts of air… (but about 3 or 4 hundred kg’s lighter!!!)

Stock 4 speed/stock clutch (Lets see how long they last before thinking upgrades)

Thermo fans to replace engine mounted fan

Aluminium radiator and custom shroud

4.1 LSD hilux diff, shortened (overkill i know... but I LIKE overkill sometimes)

Brake upgrade? (can front hubs from a hilux be made to fit??? Or fit some KE70s… I heard they aren’t so hard…) Just realised… I’ve criticised others for not thinking about brakes… and here I am neglecting them too!!!

Fuel pump/regulator 110 gph+ @ 19psi+ (reasonable ones on Ebay…)

Re-set rear leaves (jam in an extra leaf to stiffen it up a little) perhaps panhard rod too?

13” rims all round. (I found real cheap slicks for 13”s…)

Rough tidy-up of body / deep green paint to match black top half (I want it to look good, but not stand out like a sore thumb…)

 

She’s already got a 18r starter motor that I think might be up to the task and ignition is pretty well sorted, but I guess that will change depending on what direction fuel management takes.

 

Hoping for about 140-150hp nothing too insane considering…

 

She’s going to be a bit of a weekend warrior, intended for the occasional run in the hills and the odd “run what you brung” down at the drags…

 

I’m currently accumulating the funds to go ahead with this. In the mean time, I’d really appreciate any constructive criticism or suggestions… and, please… I already know I’m crazy for even thinking of trying this…

 

Oh, and anyone with parts laying around that would fit with what I’m planning, feel free to drop me a line and name a price.

 

I’m starting this with the car, 3K engine and the turbo, so any other parts would be muchly appreciated.

[machg]

Megasquirt ftw!

[sammo[RL]]

3K is feeling really really tired after racking up 280 thousand on the clock

ppffffft, its just run in now!

 

Good luck, sounds interesting

[white_sandshoe]

ppffffft, its just run in now!

 

Good luck, sounds interesting

 

Thanks Sammo, they were my sentiments too... "if i re-build her now, i'll get another 400 thousand..." then i thought i'd try and reduce that sentence with a bit of boost...

 

The turbo was originally intended for my brother's accord, but he keeps crashing it... I figured he doesn't need any more power.

 

 

Oh, and thanks for the pointer machg... hadn't heard of megasquirt. Looked it up just now, and it seems like has good potential. It could be a little steep a learning curve for me just now, but should i want to turn the wick up in the future (as we ALWAYS do...) I'll be sure to have a shot.

 

As for now, I'll look at getting the super/turbo (my frankenstein boost fiend) to flow about 2 litres of air through the engine and see if the stock accord management will make it run... I'm kinda letting my brother sort that side of things as he's a Hondaphile and knows about such things.

 

Check back in about 3 months and make sure I've started work and have some pics to post... give me a kick if i haven't!

[Taz_Rx]

Um...probably forget about the home made vortech SC idea mate!! You simply not going to get the revolutions on the pulley to make any boost!!! You'd need like a 20" wide crank pulley with a tiny pulley on the turbo shaft and then you might get some boost at 8000rpm!! :hmm:

 

I'd also forget trying to make a stock NA Honda ecu run a turbo K motor. You might be able to use the plenum/throttle body etc, but for what you'll spend getting a custom manifold made to join it all up you might as well jsut buy a 4ke or 7ke inlet mani!!!

 

I personally have run around 20psi on a stock 4k, and have seen more boost run on other K motors. The stock 3k will happily live for another few years on >10psi, but if you want to re-build with forgies then you'll have a tough as nails little motor.

 

Yes 4k head on a 3k will drop CR.

 

You also need to do some research on fuel systems I think! :dance:

[white_sandshoe]

I personally have run around 20psi on a stock 4k, and have seen more boost run on other K motors. The stock 3k will happily live for another few years on >10psi, but if you want to re-build with forgies then you'll have a tough as nails little motor.

 

Yes 4k head on a 3k will drop CR.

 

You also need to do some research on fuel systems I think! :hmm:

 

I was hoping you'd have something to say Taz Rx... I've been picking through your comments on turbo K's and you seem like one of the "go to guys" for boosting...

 

I hadn't looked at what gearing i'd need to make boost, but i did have doubts about straight gearing... was thinking i'd need a gearbox of some description to get it up to speed. (I think that's what centrifugal chargers have in them as is?) My uncles have been in racing for many years and built many a bizzare piece of machinery. Was hoping to pull them into working out that side of things for me. (nothing like having an equally crazy family) they are good for custom manufacturing like exhausts, inlets, manifolds, sump mods and the like too.

 

I haven't been able to get hold of flow ratings on the turbo as yet... It's just painful picking through Skyline forums... it's all "oh, I'm making like almost 700rwkw on like 22psi from like my stock turbos... but i like haven't dyno tested it yet..." It's much more homely with toyotas... (and realistic!)

 

As far as fuel systems go... omg! EFI is doing my head in!!! :) I'm a carb man through natural selection, and seriously considering going back to them after just a few days of research...

 

In your opinion, which would produce more reliable power? EFI or carb setup? Is it worth me gritting my teeth, doing my homework on EFI, and joining the 21st century?

 

I have a theory... with carbs, it's a matter of 1+1=2... with EFI it's a+(b SQx{5.55 over pi})-(Ambient Temp/a)=only the devil knows. :dance:

 

Do you think 150hp at the treads is possible on stock pistons? (while having a life expectancy of more than a year?)

 

oh, do you happen to know what 3K block + 4K head will make CR?

 

I'm going to be digging through any turbo K engine info i can find, so if i ask anything that's already been posted elsewhere, it just means i haven't gotten to that page just yet, so please, can you post a link instead of berating me?

 

cheers all.

[Taz_Rx]

Trying to work out the correct gearing for the turbo/SC will be a mind fark. First you need to work out turbo CFM, then rpm at which this is produced, and work back from there with internal gearing (yes you're right - centrifugal sc's do gear up inside them. Can see in below pic how the pulley is offset from the centre of the compressor) and then pulley sizes. While always keeping in mind engine rpm, and when you want the response.

To me it seems like trying to re-create the wheel! ;)

 

If you have family that can make you a decent turbo exhaust manifold cheaply, then I think you'd be silly not to just go with a conventional turbo set up. :)

 

Have a look at what I have been doing for the last 8 months to answer the carby vs EFI question! :dance: ~Yes they are a bit harder to get your head around (I like carbs for how user freindly they are), but half the reason why I'm going EFI is to expand my own knowledge as well as upgrade my car!!

 

150hp (110kw) isn't too unrealistic, but that would be starting to push 15psi, so be careful on turbo selection. :hmm:

 

Should be able to quickly find all of the figures you need to work out the CR on this site.

 

My appologies for car make/model......... :P

Edited April 7, 2008 by Taz_Rx

[white_sandshoe]

Trying to work out the correct gearing for the turbo/SC will be a mind fark.To me it seems like trying to re-create the wheel!

 

If you have family that can make you a decent turbo exhaust manifold cheaply, then I think you'd be silly not to just go with a conventional turbo set up. ;)

 

Have a look at what I have been doing for the last 8 months to answer the carby vs EFI question! :hmm: ~Yes they are a bit harder to get your head around (I like carbs for how user freindly they are), but half the reason why I'm going EFI is to expand my own knowledge as well as upgrade my car!!

 

150hp (110kw) isn't too unrealistic, but that would be starting to push 15psi, so be careful on turbo selection. :)

 

Should be able to quickly find all of the figures you need to work out the CR on this site.

 

My mind does need some action... It's been dormant for too long.

 

I got hold of what i think is ALL the equasions I'll need to work out gearing from the Garrett site... very informative... Just a matter of adapting the exhaust speed to gearing... i figure i'm looking for about a 40ish to 1 ratio... mmmm.

 

who makes a 40" pulley??? MWAhahaha!!!

 

Ok, You've sold me... a turbo it is, and a turbo it will stay. According to guys on the skyline site, the T28 should hold up at 15psi, but not much higher... wondering about lag on the 1.2 though. guess i'll have to give it a shot...

 

Found your build thread... going to be enthralled for the next few hours studying it.

 

thanks for your comments! :dance:

[Taz_Rx]

Have you got this rb20 t3 yet?

 

If not find a GTR t28 (heaps on ebay...& I've got one too) as they flow 1300cc (twins) not 2000cc! :dance:

[oh what a nissan feeling!]

^^^^what he said.

 

The compressor sizing is correct on the rb20 T3 but the rear housing is too large, you would be waiting a long time for boost. Also they are ceramic turbine which limits your boost

 

The gtr t28 has a .48 rear housing from memory, which is a good size, the t28 compressor would be quite a high flow on the little 3k, which would be suited for the 'built' type motor, would be a bit laggy, but worth it when it all happened.

wouldnt put one on a stock motor.

(don't get gtr confused with gtir, or you will never get boost)

 

 

The build your own vortech idea is not so silly, i have seen one done in a magazine, and it worked real well,

can't remember what donated the gearbox though..

[white_sandshoe]

The build your own vortech idea is not so silly, i have seen one done in a magazine, and it worked real well,

can't remember what donated the gearbox though..

 

YAY!!! at least someone doesn't think i'm nuts for wanting to mess with a perfectly good turbo...

 

I originally picked the turbo up for a few hundred and was going to stick it to the side of a 4A... Unfortunately, due to unforseen circumstances... namely rolling it into a tree... it never made it into the engine bay...

 

so it's been sitting in storage for quite some time... ideas have been thrown around about what to do with it, and it's well past time to make at least one of them happen.

 

I'm getting so much mixed info on what this turbo actually is... as far as i'm told it's either a T3, a GT25 or a T28... getting a bit lost on it actually. I'm consulting with google to see if i can track down the exact ID from the nissan part numbers.

 

'oh what a nissan feeling, I'd be eternally greatful if you happened across that magazine article and could scan some of the info and pics, or could give me some idea where to track it down.

 

I was thinking of those little push and drive cars you get cheap as from Target... how you gotta push them along to get the weighted wheel spinning up... I'm starting to think it might not be so hard to get my uncle to bolt together a larger version of one of them, considering they get that inner wheel spinning pretty quick in comparison... he's designed and built full custom gearboxes for racing in the past, so should be a fun little project for him.

 

Oh, Taz Rx, I'm about halfway through your build thread!!! I'm inspired. It's making for exciting and very informative reading.

 

Wondering if anyone would consider a straight swap for one of those GTR T28's you mentioned, otherwise i might still say to hell with the profits, and start pulling apart what i got.

 

Anyways, my main concern for now is finding out for 100% what this darn turbo actually is!!! i got the numbers from it if anyone knows about these things...

[Taz_Rx]

quick google search......

 

Came from here.. http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6516789.html

 

As far as I know they're t3's

[Doogs]

Good luck with the build, I will be watching closely.

(giving me some ideas for the future :yes: )

[white_sandshoe]

Good luck with the build, I will be watching closely.

(giving me some ideas for the future :yes: )

 

 

Update!!! Sherridan is dead... The third cylinder has half an inch of water in it... that is NOT a good thing right?

 

It's all good though, because for a small fee, namely lending my car to a rolla club member, i'm aquiring another 3K that already has the 4K head fitted... Turbo is sitting on my work bench all cleaned up and waiting.

 

Still not sure about carb setup though... Been doin lots of research, and getting all sorts of info... I am assured that a double barrel holley to match a holden red six will handle the job quite well, and handle the pressure.

 

Hopefully the other engine will arrive in the next week or so, so i'll have to get some pics happening...