Weird Problem

[KE30_KE35_KE55]

LOL i had one the same last week some winner had painted the trans and starter, it worked for a while it must have been earthing around the bolt heads,

[LittleRedSpirit]

I'm telling you its just bad grounds. I was certain that mine were perfect too, until an auto electrician pulled one of them off and showed me the little welded spot where the current had been arcing. It only takes the tiniest fault and its going to drop voltage.

 

If you really want to see if its grounds then check how much voltage there is at the trigger wire from the ignition switch at the starter, should be the little push on blade terminal on the starter itself, check how many volts the wire gives with the multimeter when you crank it. Any less than 12 and you probably have bad grounds or ignition contacts feeding it.

 

While your in the bay tooling around its a great idea to add some heavier cables for the starter, alternator, and grounds. Just doing this made my starter turn over about twice the speed.

 

Dismiss it all you want, but until you've done all these things you can't find out whats wrong, don't go assuming things and buying things you probably don't need like batteries, alternators, starters or anything until you've done the grounds up. In my experience, Ive never ever seen a broken toyota starter, ive seen sluggish old grotty ones, but never a completely dead one, and the 4ac starter that i use turns my 11:1 compression over just fine.

 

A starter relay is a common attempted fix which is rarely needed. You only need a starter relay if you cannot start the car with the lights on and good grounds. Good luck.

[Guest Sbox]

Deleted

Edited May 24, 2008 by Sbox

[KE30_KE35_KE55]

I'm telling you its just bad grounds. I was certain that mine were perfect too, until an auto electrician pulled one of them off and showed me the little welded spot where the current had been arcing. It only takes the tiniest fault and its going to drop voltage.

 

If you really want to see if its grounds then check how much voltage there is at the trigger wire from the ignition switch at the starter, should be the little push on blade terminal on the starter itself, check how many volts the wire gives with the multimeter when you crank it. Any less than 12 and you probably have bad grounds or ignition contacts feeding it.

 

While your in the bay tooling around its a great idea to add some heavier cables for the starter, alternator, and grounds. Just doing this made my starter turn over about twice the speed.

 

Dismiss it all you want, but until you've done all these things you can't find out whats wrong, don't go assuming things and buying things you probably don't need like batteries, alternators, starters or anything until you've done the grounds up. In my experience, Ive never ever seen a broken toyota starter, ive seen sluggish old grotty ones, but never a completely dead one, and the 4ac starter that i use turns my 11:1 compression over just fine.

 

A starter relay is a common attempted fix which is rarely needed. You only need a starter relay if you cannot start the car with the lights on and good grounds. Good luck.

 

You are getting ahead of your self.

to check voltage drop between 2 points just put a volt meter at the two ends if it reads a value while cranking thats the amount of voltage drop.

[LittleRedSpirit]

You are getting ahead of your self.

to check voltage drop between 2 points just put a volt meter at the two ends if it reads a value while cranking thats the amount of voltage drop.

 

 

WTF? It should be 12 volts coming through the trigger wire while cranking, if its below about 8 it probably wont crank, and therefore this voltage drop is probably caused by a bad connection somewhere. You are seemingly talking about the other issue which is the perceived need for a starter relay, due to voltage drop while cranking. You don't know if you need one until all your grounds are awesome.

 

Of course thats how you measure a voltage drop, how else would you do it? More importantly, don't try and correct me, help the guy with the problem, its his thread.

Edited December 11, 2007 by LittleRedSpirit

[KE30_KE35_KE55]

WTF? It should be 12 volts coming through the trigger wire while cranking, if its below about 8 it probably wont crank, and therefore this voltage drop is probably caused by a bad connection somewhere. You are seemingly talking about the other issue which is the perceived need for a starter relay, due to voltage drop while cranking. You don't know if you need one until all your grounds are awesome.

 

Of course thats how you measure a voltage drop, how else would you do it? More importantly, don't try and correct me, help the guy with the problem, its his thread.

 

 

Firstly I am not trying to correct you, I am informing the forum how to find where the fault is.

 

I am not talking about the trigger wire, I am talking about measuring the voltage drop

first from the battery negative terminal to the starter,

next from the positive terminal to the power stud at the starter, this 30 second job that will find any earth or power lead fault.

 

I am also just trying to help the car owner as it seems everyone has an opinion.

[Calam05]

30 is main battery

87 is to the starter

85 is power from the ignition switch

86 is earth

 

so if i turn the key over and i get no reading coming from of 87?

[LittleRedSpirit]

Firstly I am not trying to correct you, I am informing the forum how to find where the fault is.

 

I am not talking about the trigger wire, I am talking about measuring the voltage drop

first from the battery negative terminal to the starter,

next from the positive terminal to the power stud at the starter, this 30 second job that will find any earth or power lead fault.

 

I am also just trying to help the car owner as it seems everyone has an opinion.

 

 

How am I getting ahead of myself? You can't test anything to see if it works unless your certain that there isnt something simple like a ground fault ruining your tests. What you've said here is 100% nothing like what you said above. If you meant this you should have written this /\/\/\/\.

 

I never get over people who write a poorly explained post which could mean anything you want it to if you read it with a certain idea in mind, then correct people when they don't get what you meant to say. What you wrote in the post where you said I was getting ahead of myself, gives a clear idea that you are talking about voltage drop while cranking, not how to test cables.

 

I will say this to one and all;

 

if you are going to be bothered post to 'help' someone out with a technical issue, the least that you can do is explain things fully and clearly with puctuation and the best spelling you can muster. If you just throw out a random sentence and don't proofread or edit it to be sure it makes sense and achieves its purpose, your not helping anyone. don't ever use the "I was in a hurry" or "short of time" excuses, you have found all the time in the world to check back and argue with people, just not to help them at first.

 

I appreciate you are trying to help, mate, nothing personal. I see your an older fella who is probably a bit wiser. Just re-read the post with the voltage drop stuff where you responded to me, and tell me if that has the same meaning as the one above with some sort of explanation included... Thats all I'm getting at. I'm responding to what you wrote, not what you should have written, or meant to write. No biggie, I hope he fixes the issue with all this help hes getting.

[Calam05]

i put 12v straight to the starter and kicked her over :P. I'm gonna go buy a new relay and ballast resistor and if that doesnt work and i can't find any shorts in the wiring, I'm just gonna make my own ignition switch thats hidden in the car. any thing wrong with this?

[Calam05]

ok, all good, ive worked out what the problem is. It is that little blue cube. i touched a cable from the batt to the terminal on the cube that runs to the solenoid to rule out a short in that wire, and it started up first go. started instantly when i touched it. my starter motor must be in tip top shape but my cube is stuffed. now the only problem i have is where do i get anohter one? went into repco today and they didnt have one.

Edited December 12, 2007 by Calam05

[rolla_boy70]

I'd just hit the starter with a hammer....it will work.

 

Then buy a new one :P

 

hahaha this actualy works i read this post then a couple of days later my mates VH commodore had a starter problem as well i bashed tha starter with a hammer a couple of times, clicked it over and it started. only problem you have to bash it each time you want to start it

and you can hear the gears from the starter hitting the fly wheel occasionaly as you drive.

Edited December 12, 2007 by rolla_boy70

[KE30_KE35_KE55]

i put 12v straight to the starter and kicked her over :P. I'm gonna go buy a new relay and ballast resistor and if that doesnt work and i can't find any shorts in the wiring, I'm just gonna make my own ignition switch thats hidden in the car. any thing wrong with this?

 

Thats good, I am glad you found the fault instead of just jumping in and changing,cleaning components.

[Calam05]

can't fix it if u don't know whats wrong

[KE30_KE35_KE55]

can't fix it if u don't know whats wrong

 

Always best to diagnose first or it can just get you even more frustrated as you may wriggle the fault without knowing it and it will be OK for a few weeks, then at the worst possible time the fault comes back.

 

lots people in this post have also given valuable advice for preventive maintenance of the starter system. and also in case of emergency repair with a hammer to free short brushes this can be very valuable if you are stuck in the middle of no where alone.

[linzz82]

This may sound silly but could it be an imobiliser or kill switch??