Bare Metal Respray

[HEKTIC]

Hey,

Well the time has finally come for me to respray my car. I'm going to have a crack at doing it myself and it turns out a complete disaster then ill just have to bite the bullet and pay a professional to do it. I'm planning to use acrylic paint, not 100% sure on colour but it will be a std colour nothing fancy like a metallic. Anyhow i have a few questions so bare with me:

 

Stripping:

I was planning on giving chemical paint stripper a go. I was wondering what is the best technique to use this? apply it, leave it untill the paint bubbles then scrape it off using a paint scraper?

I have already begun filling some of the smaller dents etc on the car, so if i was to use the paint stripper on these area's the stripper would eat some of the bog wouldn't it? Would it soak into the bog and then later on wen the car is resprayed eat into the new paint? or is there a there something i can do to stop this happening?

 

Primer:

Spray putty and Etch primer? or should i use a 1step Primer filler? how many coats do most people use? 3?

 

Guide coat:

should i bother or not? they way i understand it is: some enamel matte black is sprayed over the primer in a random 'mist' form and it shows up any imperfections in the paint and it is then wet sanded off?

 

Colour Coats:

How many coats do most people use? 5 or 6? are they just a normal consistency or do they get progressively thinner?

 

Clear Coat/Top Coats:

I've been told conflicting things about clear coat, as I'm only painting a std colour, not metallic or anything do i need it? Some people have said to use it and mix it 75%paint - 25%clear then 50%paint - 50%clear then 25%paint - 75%clear and then finally 1 coat of just clear? I've also read on this forum that you should do your normal std colour paint, then apply 3(i think 3) coats of a very thin, almost water like top coats of colour?

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated, I'm just trying to find out the different way people do things.

Thanks Johnny.

[10ROLLA]

hey mate I'm soon to be paint stripping my car aswell, the fella at my local paint place, told me to tape about an inch from the edge, holes or diffucult places where the stripper could stay or not get removed properly, you understand?. then stripper all around where u have taped up. then pull off all the tape and sand what the tape has been covering down to bare metal as this will stop the the paint stripper from stayin in a difficult place to get at and/or eating into your next coat of paint!

 

hope this helps, this is just what the guy told me!

 

Cheers Myles

[Guest Sbox]

Deleted

Edited May 24, 2008 by Sbox

[oh what a nissan feeling!]

1. correct

 

2. What paint are you using? Acrylic or 2pac? U must etch the metal, with acrylic this can be just with a brush on tin because its really thin stuff, you can bog over any etch. Primer is a separate thing that is applied over your finished filler work (bog).

 

3. Donot use enamal, it will cause reaction particularly with 2pac. Guide coat is used as a reference for when you are attempting to remove dents, so how often you guide coat is up to you. I do it on the bog several times, and also when rubbing off the undercoat incase i missed anything.

 

4. If you are using clear then you only need enough colour to cover, usually 3 coats, depending on colour. the first coat should be a mist, as this prevents runs.

 

5. Clear is cheaper then colour, so use it to get enough paint on there to give it a good buff. The clear will also add depth to your paint. as for mixing with the colour its a matter of opinion, if it 2pac don't, if its pearl or metallic don't. I wouldnt bother.

 

 

Hope this helps :sob:

[madrolla68]

1. correct

 

2. What paint are you using? Acrylic or 2pac? U must etch the metal, with acrylic this can be just with a brush on tin because its really thin stuff, you can bog over any etch. Primer is a separate thing that is applied over your finished filler work (bog).

 

3. Donot use enamal, it will cause reaction particularly with 2pac. Guide coat is used as a reference for when you are attempting to remove dents, so how often you guide coat is up to you. I do it on the bog several times, and also when rubbing off the undercoat incase i missed anything.

 

4. If you are using clear then you only need enough colour to cover, usually 3 coats, depending on colour. the first coat should be a mist, as this prevents runs.

 

5. Clear is cheaper then colour, so use it to get enough paint on there to give it a good buff. The clear will also add depth to your paint. as for mixing with the colour its a matter of opinion, if it 2pac don't, if its pearl or metallic don't. I wouldnt bother.

Hope this helps :sob:

 

 

Hey you sound like you know what your doing,

 

Two questions

 

Whats the best rust convertor???

 

What pressure do i run my spray gun at,its a normal type not gravity feed.???

 

Cheers sorry to hijack thread.

 

Matt

[oh what a nissan feeling!]

My mate recons the loctite one is excellent, i havnt tried it i just use that killrust stuff, does the job.

 

The spray gun pressure is one of those questions,it depends on too many things, what sort of paint, what thickness, tip size of the gun, but mostly the gun itself, the quality of the gun means plenty, usually the crap guns need more pressure whereas a really good gun can spray at almost nothing. I usually waste a fair bit of paint playing with this spraying a box or something before going near the car. Make the adjustment on the gun not the compressor and If your gun has a gauge just ignore it, and go off what you see while spraying something.

[HEKTIC]

hey mate I'm soon to be paint stripping my car aswell, the fella at my local paint place, told me to tape about an inch from the edge, holes or diffucult places where the stripper could stay or not get removed properly, you understand?. then stripper all around where u have taped up. then pull off all the tape and sand what the tape has been covering down to bare metal as this will stop the the paint stripper from stayin in a difficult place to get at and/or eating into your next coat of paint!

 

hope this helps, this is just what the guy told me!

 

Cheers Myles

 

yeah man that helps, was thinking of doing something similar but its good to know i have the right idea, thanks

 

If you can help it don't use the paint stripper, that is generally only used in a complete strip unless your a pro. Just sand back and feather the new repairs in, as it is easier and you can mask off your rubbers and trims. If you don't know what your doing (spray painter panel beaters have a four year apprenticeship behind them and then a couple of years. Not all of them achieve excellence.), you can stuff up badly and your new paint (two pak is the only way to fly) won't hang on. The other thing is the stuff is toxic and generally requires water (lots of to remove), a mate of mine killed his old cheese lawn and after 20 years it is only just growing back.

 

i said I'm not spraying 2pac for a number of reasons, my safety being the main 1 i don't really want to be spraying something that can potentially give me or my family cancer in our garage! I'd like to use paint stripper because its quick! thanks for the advice anyways

 

1. correct

 

2. What paint are you using? Acrylic or 2pac? U must etch the metal, with acrylic this can be just with a brush on tin because its really thin stuff, you can bog over any etch. Primer is a separate thing that is applied over your finished filler work (bog).

 

3. Donot use enamal, it will cause reaction particularly with 2pac. Guide coat is used as a reference for when you are attempting to remove dents, so how often you guide coat is up to you. I do it on the bog several times, and also when rubbing off the undercoat in case i missed anything.

 

4. If you are using clear then you only need enough colour to cover, usually 3 coats, depending on colour. the first coat should be a mist, as this prevents runs.

 

5. Clear is cheaper then colour, so use it to get enough paint on there to give it a good buff. The clear will also add depth to your paint. as for mixing with the colour its a matter of opinion, if it 2pac don't, if its pearl or metallic don't. I wouldn't bother.

Hope this helps :sob:

 

reply to 2: i was planning on using acrylic as its my first go and due to the location where I'm spraying and the fact i don't have all the required gear. So primer filler doesn't have the 'etch' part in it like I'm assuming 'etch primer' does. So i could just buy this separate and spray it on?

 

reply to 3: ok thanks for that, i wasn't real keen on the idea, but the basic principle is that you rub it all off? so therefore i can't really affect the colour coats can it?

 

reply to 4&5: i really want the deepest shine i can get with acrylic? so how many coats would i get over a full car from 4ltrs? i was planning on 6 and i figured 8ltrs of paint would easily allow for this? and i was planning on practicing spraying on my hood or door until i get the knack of it, and that much paint would probably allow for a few stuff ups?

 

Hey you sound like you know what your doing,

 

Two questions

 

Whats the best rust convertor???

 

What pressure do i run my spray gun at,its a normal type not gravity feed.???

 

Cheers sorry to hijack thread.

 

Matt

 

thats all good i was going to ask similar, i plan to use either a HVLP spray gun or a normal gravity feed gun which would u recommend 'oh what a nissan feeling!'? and what pressure to set it at?

[mattress]

A mate of mine who is a spraypainter recommends nothing but gravity fed guns. He also told me that you can get a very good finish with acrylic but it just wont last compared with 2pac.

 

I've talked with him at length about when he'll be sparying my car and he has recommended a 22 line white, no clear. Above where somebody mentioned clear was cheaper than colour i guess while technically possible probably isnt a good idea. My mate told me a paint job with clear is only as good the clear used so don't skimp on that.

 

I watched him paint a mates silvia on the weekend, black with zerelic pearl. I was amazed to watch him run his finger through brand new paint work to remove a dust particle. I asked him about it later and he said just wait and see. It turned out perfect after two more coats. I've also seen him get a run on another car and he just loaded the paint on and ran the run off the car. I guess they are the tricks of the trade you learn after doing the job for a few years.

 

Personally i would never attempt panel and paint on one of my own cars. I guess it comes down to previous experience and the finish you hope to achieve. I figure if your forking out cash on the paint and materials you might as well go that bit extra and have a pro complete it. Perhaps you could even complete the majority of the panel work and have them fine tune it and spray it. I guess it makes it that little bit easier for me having mates in the business with boothes and such...

[madrolla68]

My mate recons the loctite one is excellent, i havnt tried it i just use that killrust stuff, does the job.

 

The spray gun pressure is one of those questions,it depends on too many things, what sort of paint, what thickness, tip size of the gun, but mostly the gun itself, the quality of the gun means plenty, usually the crap guns need more pressure whereas a really good gun can spray at almost nothing. I usually waste a fair bit of paint playing with this spraying a box or something before going near the car. Make the adjustment on the gun not the compressor and If your gun has a gauge just ignore it, and go off what you see while spraying something.

 

Ok thanks its only a relitavely cheap gun so i guess around 35-40 PSI would be a good place to start ey.

[leigh]

Hey,

Well the time has finally come for me to respray my car. I'm going to have a crack at doing it myself and it turns out a complete disaster then ill just have to bite the bullet and pay a professional to do it. I'm planning to use acrylic paint, not 100% sure on colour but it will be a std colour nothing fancy like a metallic. Anyhow i have a few questions so bare with me:

 

Stripping:

I was planning on giving chemical paint stripper a go. I was wondering what is the best technique to use this? apply it, leave it untill the paint bubbles then scrape it off using a paint scraper?

I have already begun filling some of the smaller dents etc on the car, so if i was to use the paint stripper on these area's the stripper would eat some of the bog wouldn't it? Would it soak into the bog and then later on wen the car is resprayed eat into the new paint? or is there a there something i can do to stop this happening?

 

Primer:

Spray putty and Etch primer? or should i use a 1step Primer filler? how many coats do most people use? 3?

 

Guide coat:

should i bother or not? they way i understand it is: some enamel matte black is sprayed over the primer in a random 'mist' form and it shows up any imperfections in the paint and it is then wet sanded off?

 

Colour Coats:

How many coats do most people use? 5 or 6? are they just a normal consistency or do they get progressively thinner?

 

Clear Coat/Top Coats:

I've been told conflicting things about clear coat, as I'm only painting a std colour, not metallic or anything do i need it? Some people have said to use it and mix it 75%paint - 25%clear then 50%paint - 50%clear then 25%paint - 75%clear and then finally 1 coat of just clear? I've also read on this forum that you should do your normal std colour paint, then apply 3(i think 3) coats of a very thin, almost water like top coats of colour?

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated, I'm just trying to find out the different way people do things.

Thanks Johnny.

 

 

Ill paint your car for u john! :sob:

[oh what a nissan feeling!]

Ok thanks its only a relitavely cheap gun so i guess around 35-40 PSI would be a good place to start ey.

Yeh, my gun is relatively crap, and it sprays around 30-35, so id start about there. I borrow when i can the old mans one from work.

 

I was amazed to watch him run his finger through brand new paint work to remove a dust particle. I asked him about it later and he said just wait and see. It turned out perfect after two more coats. I've also seen him get a run on another car and he just loaded the paint on and ran the run off the car. I guess they are the tricks of the trade you learn after doing the job for a few years.

 

Never try any of this with acrylic, only 2pac.

 

reply to 3: ok thanks for that, i wasn't real keen on the idea, but the basic principle is that you rub it all off? so therefore i can't really affect the colour coats can it?

 

With 2pac enamal will react with the undercoat, but with acrylic you can use enamal as a guide coat if you really want, it tends to clog your paper real bad though. :sob:

 

One more thing, never wet sand, the only time water should go anywhere near it is to wash off paint stripper, or when sanding the top coat to buff. :hmm:

[Guest Sbox]

Deleted

Edited May 24, 2008 by Sbox

[kangaroosa]

CLICK

[awvg]

hay mate i have just finished restoring a 76 beetle which i just sold to pay for my ke35..

i paint stripped the whole beetle basically to see what i was dealing with as i knew it had a bit of rust ... it can be a long painful process but i found pretty benefical as i found a few dodgy repair jobs that were covered in bog and paint... i found that the stripper didnt affect the bog to much but i tended to wipe off the stripper aroung the bog basically imediately ... i also found for those stubborn bits of paint that steel wool and paint stripper do a pretty good job or atternatively you can get paint stripper discs that go on the angle grinder which remove the paint excelently but can also scar the metal as well .. remember to wear some thick gloves to when using the stripper as it does burn the skin when you get it on it ...

 

painting wise once the beetle was all clean and free of stripper i gave it a spray over with etch primer try and do this as quick as possible to prevent any contaminants getting on the bare metal ... the etch primer is a coating which makes the paint bond to the metal properly so is a very important step and should idealy be painted over the next day although i left mine for a while and still worked with no issues.. the next step was primer filler this is a thick paint so you will need a thicker nozzle on your gun i used a 2mm tip. this paint was owsome in removing any minor imperfections in the body like scratches etc as being thick you can really lay it on in some areas.. once that is dry sand it back with 400 grit until the primer filler is nice and smooth the smoother the finish on the primer the better the finish on the final coat...

 

with the final coat i used acrylic which after a good cut back and polish being careful around corners ofcourse came up really well not as glossy as two pak but pretty good however to keep up the shine needs to be buffed every once in a while ... i aimed for around 5 to 7 coats being careful not to apply it to thick and waiting 10 to 15 mins between coats... i hadn't heard of the need for a clear coat with acrylic was led to believe was only needed for enamel and two pak to give it its gloss could be wrong but... make sure when you paint too that the weather isnt to humid or to cold as this really affects the paint ...

 

tuning the gun is very important also i was told to shoot the gun vertically onto some masking paper and you will see a cigar shape with lots of little dots of over spray around it... the key is to keep that cigar shape and you may have to fiddle with the fine adjustment knob to remove or reduce those dots of over spray from around it ... the better the gun the lesser the over spray

 

hope this was helpful ... i have painted a few things now and this method i guess you could say has worked really well so far with no problems ... if its your first time practise on some spare panels and experiment with it till you feel confident...