4afc/4afe Info Wanted

[200Boy]

Hey guys, if anyone knows much about either of these engines or whats involved in putting one in an ae82 then could they contact me via email or msn at [email protected]. Please no 4age or boat anchor comments etc. although having said that I'm sure some smartarse will now. ;)

 

Cheers 200Boy.

[Des]

4af engines use a c50(i think) not a c52 like the 4age.

 

My old ae82 seca csx had a 4afc in it and from what i could tell it used the same mounts as the 4a-c. Should only have to rip the 4a-c out and drop the 4afc in, Hook up fuel, Vaccum and power lines and your off.

[Beejae82]

you will need the fc/fe gearbox, the 4ac box cannot be used because of where the stater motor sits-fe/fc exhaust fouls 4ac starter motor, of course thats only a problem if you don't have the fe/fc box with the engine

[200Boy]

Haha have I told you guys I love you lately? :no2: These have been just about the only helpful responses I've gotten that haven't prompted me to explain why I'm thinking about doing this ;)

 

Heres a bit more detail I put on another forum anyway:

 

I have done some research over a few forums. I found I need a different top engine mount on the drivers side, lengthened exhaust to the front of the engine, the original lead from the coil to the dizzy and that the ae82 radiator outlet wont line up. I'm unsure if an ae92 radiator will fit in my car. I found the 4ac and the 4af use the same box and that apparently you can use the original 4ac loom.

 

I was unsure if there was any 4afe internals or anything that would readily transfer to the 4afc that would be an improvement. I read they have higher compression so I thought maybe I could just use a 4afe and a 4afc inlet manifold if that would actually work. Also in some other efi/carby model cars its an improvement to use the carby model cam in the efi engine and I wondered if that could be the case. Because the 4afe went on to the ae101 as well I considered they might have made some worthy improvements that could maybe work with the 4afc.

 

I'll gladly hear opinions of mods to these engines if they're fairly inexpensive although they're virtually impossible to find because everyone takes the 4age route. If I find this conversion is going to be overly expensive or complicated then I will happily sell my car and buy an sx outright. I'm not looking for a world beater, I'm just cheap with a lot of time on my hands and wanting to build a setup that I can reliably thrash. If building a hybrid out of the 4a engines is my best bet then that'd be ace.

 

Thanks heaps guys, 200Boy :bash:

[Felix]

Pretty sure the 4afc and early 4afe have the exact same bottom end.

 

The 4afc and earlier 4afe have slightly different heads. They are pretty much identical castings, except the injectors are mounted in the head on the 4afe (not the manifold) and squirt directly into the inlet ports. You could bolt the early 4afe head on a 4afc, but would have to run the injection setup.

 

The later 4afe's have different manifolds to the earlier ones (injectors in manifold), so won't be compatible. The heads are a different casting to the earlier 4afc/e. They have more in common with a 7afe than with the earlier 4afc/e.

 

From what I've come across, it seems if you want reground cams for the earlier 4afc/e you get the cams from the later 4afe and grind them down. Apparently the later cams are not compatible with the earlier motors unless the lobes are machined down, due to having a larger base circle diameter.

[KE30_KE35_KE55]

I fitted a 4AFC head to my STD 4A in the vehicle, simply drop the sump, I fitted 4AFe pistons I left the injectors and rail inplace and bolted on a cenrepoint manifold to suite carby. I went that way simply so i could set up efi later if i wanted to. I also used the 4afc exhaust manifold with the o2 sensor. in a AE82 only changes are radiator hoses, exhaust, and a few simple wire extensions ect.

I never connected EFI as i already had trouble keeping drivehifts intact with the carby.

[200Boy]

Thanks for the replies guys. To KE30_KE35_KE55, is there any benefit in doing it the way you did as opposed to just putting in a 4afc? I read some of the extra things you had to do using that method in another thread. Thanks also for the reply via pm. I think it would be good info for everyone to read in this thread.

 

"Don't try for any extra lift on the cam as the pistons already have cut outs as they run so close, a simple worn timing belt at high revs and it could be bye bye engine. A regrind for longer opening would be ok. I found a few valve springs were suffering loss of unsprung height. A lot of benefit can be made from porting and polishing as well."

 

Does this mean I might run into issues with head shaving? If so is there any way of getting around this i.e. using different pistons?

 

Well now I'll get into the nasty stuff, any benefit in using 4age bits in a 4afc? Someone modifying a 4ac was recommended to use 4age rods, after market rod bolts, and double valve springs. They said they wanted to use the 4ac crank and not a 4age one because it had less rotating mass, so would using a different crank or any of these mods be worth while in a 4afc? Also what about 4age extractors, clutches, flywheels or gearboxes?

 

p.s. I might be tired and not considering budgeting or grammar at this time of morning :sob:

 

200Boy

Edited May 28, 2007 by 200Boy

[KE30_KE35_KE55]

if you already have a 4af it would be easyer to simply fit that. I only did the mods in the car as everything on my 4a was already up to race spec and I only had the weekend to do the swap as it was my daily driver. I found a exhaust manifold that fitted with my original AE82 gearbox. A 4af bottom end will handle all the trashing you can give it drivehafts and trans axle will break before the engine if assembled right.

Edited May 29, 2007 by KE30_KE35_KE55

[Rosegum]

I'm on the same caper except i have an AE80 in the backyard instead, engine bay wise almost exactly the same excluding support for EFI.

 

The engine is bolted in place and i'm currently having the exhaust manifold welded as it had cracked in half. I'm too cheap to buy extractors at the moment and i have a mate that is a master boiler maker. Apparently the manifold's crack regularly and i can understand why, the casting method left a thinner section in the wall of everyone that i have seen so far.

 

a mate told me a fella on ebay has 100 of em for sale but yet again I'm too cheap.

 

The radiator outlets do not match but when i get to it i'll find another vehicles hoses that fit. However the bottom outlet should still fit with the standard hose and some gentle persuasion.

 

i'm yet to find out if the starter motor causes any issue but i'm sticking with the C40 that came with the car for now till i shatter something. I like the ratio's in the box and the old 1300 use to peak at 6800, 1,200rpm above factory spec. when you attach a 4a-fe block to a c40-50 the starter location is maintained by the blanker plate attached to the engine. mine is on the back as this is a crossflow engine, unlike the old 2a which was a sideflow and mounted the starter at the front, which annoyed me as everytime i adjusted the distributor, as i undid the nut the spanner end would often smack straight into the head of the solenoid cap which eventually fell loose. sometimes i'd jam a piece of wood between the radiator hose and the cap so it would fire the starter. Although there is a support bar that reaches from the plenum to half way down the block, i'm wondering if it's removal would structurally weaken the intake manifold.

 

I'm wiring in a MegaSquirt Version 2.2. to control injector timing and as there was no factory efi option i'm adding an efi relay and fuse box spearate to the standard loom.

 

i've got all the major sensor's and stuff hooked up,

 

coolant temp

oil pressure

intake air temp

2 bar MAP sensor (built into MS)

injectors

 

what i need to find out is the colour code for

 

distributor wiring 6 pins

and 2 pins

 

what I'm guessing is the idle controller 3 pins

 

 

everything else is ready to roll

 

if anyone can help maybe a schematic from 90's model corolla or nova it would be greatly appreciated

 

sorry to hijack the thread

if there's any help i can provide don't hesitate to ask

[Sam_Q]

I think going to the 4afc would be a really simple and effective upgrade, might be worthwhile getting a smshed up car at the auctions, I am sure without the G wonder in it it would probably go cheap enough