4a-gze's Suck!

[ancullen]

you are never going to get good economy out of something that weighs over 1200+kgs.

 

lets see (city figures)

petrol engine @ 11L/100klms = $12/100klms

diesel engine @ 9L/100klms = $11/100klms

LPG engine @ 15L/100klms = $7.50/100klms

 

YOU CANNOT SAVE MONEY BY STUPID TDI METHODS. THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY TO SAVE MONEY, AND THAT IS TO LOWER THE UNIT PRICE OF THE FUEL YOU FEED IT.

 

At the end of the day, it's the weight you've got to push that makes a car drink, no matter if it has a mammoth motor or a tiny one, diesel or petrol.

 

LPG is the way of the future.

 

My 1600kg Falcon gets $8/100klms around town with the aircon on.

 

Cynic/Extremist/Revolutionary, call me what you will but i looked at it this way.

 

My KE55 would do, at best, 11L/100klms around town. That's about $12/100klms for the second slowest car on the road, this side of a volkswagen beetle.

 

And then there's a Gas Falcon that does $8/100klms and it has power to burn.

 

I liked my corolla. I love my falcon.

 

/rant.

 

1390kg Golf GT - 7.2L/100km = $7.80/100km. :jamie: However you are correct that LPG is a very good way to go. Yes you use more LPG per km than you would of petrol, but one of LPG's main advantages is that it produces FAR less carbon-dioxide than petrol. In fact, a Toyota Prius II converted to Autogas by the French Propane & Butane Association (CFBP) and the World LP Gas Association (WLPGA) was tested and produced 50% less carbon monoxide, 40% less hydrocarbons, 35% less nitrogen oxides and 50% less oxide forming potential than petrol. This is one of the main reasons car manufacturers are so interested in it, especially when California is trying so hard to get companies to produce zero emissions vehicles. However, VW has stated that they are not interested in LPG, but are looking into CNG (Compressed Natural Gas), as they feel it's cheaper, even more CO2 friendly, and doesn't lack performance in turbo engines. If they're successful in their research, it should be interesting to see the results.

 

BTW, I forgot to mention I hate you. :) We pay about $1.25 per litre at the moment for unleaded, and I think LPG is somewhere between $0.80-0.90 per litre, or possibly higher. And we still pay something like $0.47/litre in some government tax or levy. Bastards.

Edited November 26, 2006 by ancullen

[Trev]

it wasnt directed at you personally, just a general statement so others wont get confused..

 

No worries

 

Yes. :)

 

Was waiting for it :jamie:

[Mr Hardware]

I'm sure you can appreciate that manufacturers quoted figures for a combined city/highway cycle is nowhere near accurate to city figures. I have a mate who has a 2002 diesel Golf and he gets 11L/100klms.

 

I chose 11L petrol, 9L diesel and 15L gas as a good estimate for real world city driving.

 

LPG Hybrid is the way of the future. LPG is the way of the present.

 

I would love a CNG vehicle.

 

Only one problem

 

THERE'S NOWHERE TO FILL THEM UP

 

Sucks to be Volkswagen, living in a fairy land.

 

 

 

also,

Petrol is roughly $1.10 here atm. I filled up with LPG yesterday at 49.5c/L. If you're interested, I did 380klms of mainly highway for $20.65. Thats with the air-con on all the time too.

Edited November 27, 2006 by Mr Hardware

[7shades]

Innovation drives sales, however novel or pointless it may be.

 

LPG? Bah humbug. I sneer at your LPG.

 

I'm building a on-demand closed-loop hydrogen generator. Run your car on tap water. THATS the way of the future people.

 

Its proving somewhat costly but I suppose thats what happens when you innovate rather than immitate.

[ancullen]

I'm building a on-demand closed-loop hydrogen generator. Run your car on tap water. THATS the way of the future people.

 

Wouldn't closed loop indicate that the burned hydrogen, which turns into water when burnt with oxygen, goes back through a system within the car, possibly going through electrolysis to seperate the hydrogen and oxygen and be reused by the engine as fuel? This system is entirely possibly right at this very moment, with only one small but important flaw - it takes more energy to split the hydrogen from the oxygen than the system produces. Of course, one would think that this extra energy could be catered for by a couple of highly efficient batteries and possibly some solar panels, but maybe they wouldn't provide enough.

[Mr Hardware]

so in a word or two

 

that sucks

[philba]

It pumps up to 1.8bar, or 26.5psi through the engine!!!

 

and reaches maximum boost of 2.5bar, or just over 36psi!

 

The supercharger and turbocharger may be able to pump and boost that much air, but do you really think that VW would do that? Most car tuners will boast when they have bolted together an engine that is capable of taking 2.0bar of boost. And if they VW was releasing an engine that does boost that high, wouldn't the power figures be more around the 200-250kw range. Holden's supercharged V6 gained only 24kw with 3psi of boost. So if VW is pumping 26.5psi through the supercharger and 36psi through the turbo, than I'd hate to have the gutless atmo version

[ancullen]

I thought that too when I read the article, but I figure the turbo and supercharger being used are each very small items. They're capable of high pressure, but only on very small volumes of air. That would explain the relatively low power & torque compared with boost pressures.

[Mr Hardware]

it would be much better to have a larger unit doing low PSI than a smaller unit doing high PSI. Longevity and stress reasons prevail.

 

Heh I can't wait until Hybrids become commonplace, I'll be having me an LPG Hybrid doing $2/100klms city.

[7shades]

Wouldn't closed loop indicate that the burned hydrogen, which turns into water when burnt with oxygen, goes back through a system within the car, possibly going through electrolysis to seperate the hydrogen and oxygen and be reused by the engine as fuel? This system is entirely possibly right at this very moment, with only one small but important flaw - it takes more energy to split the hydrogen from the oxygen than the system produces. Of course, one would think that this extra energy could be catered for by a couple of highly efficient batteries and possibly some solar panels, but maybe they wouldn't provide enough.

 

Yes.

 

I currently have a very small setup running a clapped out 4 stroke lawnmower engine. Nothing mobile, the whole system is a collection of containers and tubing, car batteries, dodgey wiring and an old alternator sitting on a bench but it IS working. Its not terribly efficient and it does lose a small amount of water over time as well as slowly draining the batteries but I'm hoping to overcome those problems once I transfer the system into an operating vehicle by using regenerative braking and more airtight components.

[Mr Hardware]

that's impressive

[ancullen]

Yes.

 

I currently have a very small setup running a clapped out 4 stroke lawnmower engine. Nothing mobile, the whole system is a collection of containers and tubing, car batteries, dodgey wiring and an old alternator sitting on a bench but it IS working. Its not terribly efficient and it does lose a small amount of water over time as well as slowly draining the batteries but I'm hoping to overcome those problems once I transfer the system into an operating vehicle by using regenerative braking and more airtight components.

 

I forgot about regnerative braking. It's something else that would be essential for a closed loop hydrogen system. Of course, anywhere you can pick up a bit of power will be essential. How many car batteries do you need for you lawnmower system? Do you have access to more efficient batteries, such as the ones being used in Prius's and the Honda Insight? I think the ideal way to create a closed loop hydrogen powered car would be to get a hydbrid, ditch the electric motor(s), and use the battery packs to provide that power for the electrolysis. Of course, I'm sure you will have thought of this too. Plus the Insight came with regenerative braking, not so sure about the Prius though.

[rollacdmd]

I agree with old mate "ancullen"

 

everything he has said is true but....

 

Its like in Australia we don't have the population overhaul where

we can't move in traffic and are sitting idle for hours on end..

however in Europe in England for example this combination of

the supercharger and the turbo will make an absolute killing

its what they have always needed and wanted! Its been in

demand in Europe. The thing is that the 4AGZE was propably

purposely built for racing and made for mainly performance

however this is engine is made for not only the performance

but economy and reliablity! For every rich chick of bloke in

Europe will want one of these its fast enough to scare them

and efficent enough to get them round town safetly great

design and mix of engine ability!!!!!

 

:y: :y:

Edited November 28, 2006 by rollacdmd

[7shades]

the current setup uses a standard 4wd battery with heaps of amps... I think with the regenerative braking I'm going to pair it with a deep cycle golf cart battery and some tricky voltage regulation and automatic charging/switching

 

the prius uses regen braking.... its f@$king genius actually... difference is its all computer-managed. (and no hydrogen obviously)

 

I'm hoping to eventually go complete computer control... jusst gotta get someone a LOT smarter than me to build the interface for the laptop and write the program with all the algorythms etc... bloody complicated

[ancullen]

The only issue with the Prius is the Atkinson-cycle motor. I can't imagine you'd want to use a six-stroke engine (I'm not even sure why Toyota bother). Of course, as it's based on the NZ-series of motors, you could always swap the 1NZ-FXE for a regular 1NZ-FE (running on hydrogen of course). In fact, if you were really lucky (and sold yourself really well), you might be able to convince Toyota (or Toyota Australia) to give you Prius with battery packs, minus the electric and petrol motors, plus the engine & transmission from an Echo/Yaris, and you build a zero emissions vehicle for them as a show car. They could do all the programming for you too (or talk to CSIRO). They would probably never build it, but it would look great for them to have a zero emissions vehicle to show off.