Banjo

Claire, I note in another thread I can across that Mr Revhead posted on the 2nd February that you were considering upping the compression ratio on your 4K by possibly putting on a 3K head. I think a little homework here might pay off here. From the picture you posted earlier in this thread, the pistons you have are "D" shaped dished pistons. That makes your 4K probably a 4K-U, which was different to other 4K series engines, which basically have flat topped pistons. To compensate for the larger swept volume of the dished pistions in the 4K-U the head is also different to other 4K series engines. The "Heron head on the 4K-U has a different combustion chamber shape and depth to keep the compression ratio correct & better gas flow. The head itself is about 4-5mm deeper than a standard 4K head, and has head bolts & pushrods that are again about 5mm longer than those on standard 4K engines. The problem is that if you plop a 3K head on top of your 4K-U with dished pistons you'll probably have more than a little compression increase. As someone else has calculated, when I matched a Heron head from a 4K-U with flat top pistons on a std 4K-C, the compression ratio would prbably be about 15 or 16:1. The same result would occur if you place a 3K head on top of dished pistons. The larger swept volume of the cylinder compressed into a smaller combustion chamber in the head would probably finish up with a compression ratio that would be undrivable. Someone might be able to correct me, but I think my theory is correct. Someone else might have tried a 3K head on a 4K-U block with dished pistons: so I'd be glad to be corrected. As the Heron head is 5mm thicker through, it should take a nice surface grind, which should give you the extra compression you require. I'm doing up a 4K-U also at present, and I am sending my "Heron" head off next week for a overhaul & shave. =)

Thanks Kangaroosa. Should be able to get it going tomorrow with that info. Many thanks ! =)

Picked up a 5K electronic dizzy on ebay recently for just $ 50.00 in excellent condition. It is a Nippon Denso unit with 5K-C on the Toyota label on it. It is the electronic dizzy with the ignitor built-in. The plug to it has only two connections. One presumably goes to +12V ignition & the other to the +ve side of the coil. One wire is black with a red stripe on it, the other is black only. I presume the red stripe is +12V ignition & the black one goes to the coil. Can any one confirm, who has a 5K wiring diagram, showing the electronic dizzy connections ? Does anyone know of the original 5K coil primary resistance specs ? What other low resistance primary electronic coils has anyone else used sucessfully with the 5K-C electronic dizzy ? Any insight by those who have trod this path before, would be of great assistance. :P

Fook, the yellow will contrast nicely in the engine test bay stand I built & painted matt black. Will post a picture when it's all mounted up in the test stand. Claire, I like the more refined blue you have painted your 4K-U. Very nice ! Did you brush paint it ? I find it quicker to spray, as there are so many little nooks & crannies. Actually, if I remember rightly, a lot of early Nissan / Datsun engines came out painted in a blue like that, standard. Anyone remember. As an aside. Compare how many Datsuns of a similar vintage there are on the roads compared to KE series Corollas. Not many eh ! Might be a few more in N.Z. Claire's country mates tend to keep their cars a little longer than Australia. Current figures are that the average age of all cars in Australia is 11 years. Average age in N.Z. is somewhere between 15-16 years. Amazing statistics eh ! Happy Corollaing ! :P

Here's another shot of them there "D" 4K pistons :dance:

Opphs ! I don't know what happened to the attached picture in the previous post. Here goes again ! :dance:

Nick, you are dead right. They are 4K-U "D" dished or "Heron" pistons. The depth of the dish is approximately 8mm. I recently pulled the head off my 4K-U, so I have attached a couple of pics that show them fairly clearly, if you turn the brightness up on your VDU. Sorry Claire. I haven't got a spare one, and the head is going back on this one this weekend. If anyone makes a remark about the Caterpillar powered (yellow) Corolla: DON'T. It was my son's idea. Actually, my local Supa Cheap store had run out of black. The other alternative was purple ! Uuuurrrhhh !

Heavens ! What have I started here. A drain of 4K parts to Wellington & Nelson in New Zealand. I'm still looking for a 5K engine any condition ! Banjo :lock:

I can see a working bee coming up for Rolla Club in Brisbane to Nelson in NZ to heeeeelp Miss Flirty rework that poor old 4K. How much excess baggage do you think Freedom Air would charge to take a full 4K to N.Z. Most of us have one in the back shed ! Welcome Abooard Miss Flirty ! :lock:

Beautiful Teddy ! I've got this mental picture of you on the end of a bit of rag, being suddenly sucked into the top of the carby. Of course the engine would stop dead. Your legs & arms would probably jam the pistons. :insane: :D :D :( Banjo

Thanks Jamie, Your advice is always valued. I am an electronics engineer by trade so getting the Jaycar HEI to work with a 4K reluctor dizzy without internal ignitor will not be a problem. I was just interested as to whether anyone in the club has done it before. When I've finished it I'll document it and you can add it to your website if you want to. As an aside. Pertronix in the USA who do electronic dizzy converter kits & the like, have just brought out a new Iginitor II with a variable dwell feature that their first model didn't have. Someone on eBay.com.au has picked some up of the superceded modules, & is selling them for AUD $ 99.00 buy now. Just search all catorgories & keyword ignitor, and you'll find it. Thanks again ! :insane:

If I'd been smart enough to read Super Jamie's FAQ site I would have answered all my questions in one hit. Here's what he has to suggest about the electronic dizzy's "Nippon Denso Electronic Type These a mainly found on jap import motors. There are 2 types, 5K internal ignitor and 4K external ignitor. The internal ignitor dizzy, just needs to be connected to an appropriate electronic coil. The external type needs an ignitor to fire the coil. Ignitors from Mazda RX7s and Mitsubishi Scorpions can be utilized with the external dizzy. The electronic ND distributors are far better made than the early points versions. The advance mechanisms are a better design, more similar to the Bosch dizzy. The worst bit about the electronic dizzy is its cost. Wreckers want around AU$150 for one. New igniters depending on type, are over AU$100. New electronic coils are more expensive too. If you take the time and look around a bit you can do it far cheaper." Still interested if anyone has hooked up the 4K electronic dizzy which requires an external ignitor, (which is exactly what I have got), to a Jaycar HEI system. Thanks guys for help this evening.

OK, the plot thickens, but the pictuire is a bit clearer now. The 4K electronic dizzy I have is a Nippon Denso unit, P/N 1900-13010 It has the marking 4k-U and another number 029100-4803. Tonight I pulled it to bits, and all it has inside it, besides the normal automatic advance weights/springs, and vacuum advance unit, is a single reluctance magnetic sensor, which has two wires (white & orange) coming out to a green 2 way plug. I assume Kangaroosa's comment " I assume you have a coil suited to your electronic dizzy?" indicates there is a special Toyota coil to be used along with the 4K electronic dizzy, that has the electronics embedded in it, to switch the coils primary current etc. Are these coils available or has some one out there got one they wish to part with for some green stuff ? I haven't got one. I guess the easiest way to utilise the electronic distributor, as is, is to mate it up to a Jaycay Hi Energy electroninic ignition system, which will accept a reluctance sensor as the trigger input. Has anyone done this before ? I have a Jaycar unit here on the bench I haven't got around to assembling as yet. Any comments or suggestions welcome. :insane:

Hey Guy's, Picked up a reconditioned (new bushes etc.) 4K electronic dizzy on eBay the other day for a song ! I'm as happy as a pig in a mud bath ! Question, There are two wires that come out of it into a green plug. Do these normally connect to some other ECU module that Toyota fitted to the 4K engines with electronic dizzys, or is there more switching electronics in under the little black cover inside the dizzy, so that the wires directly connect to +ve 12V & & the coil etc ? I've unfortunately never seen a KE55 with an electronic dizzy setup. My Gregory's 184 manual only describes the points dizzy setup & wiring diagram only depicts the points dizzy wiring. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. I know a few of you guys like Nick have had electronic dizzys on your 4K & 5K engines, so I hope there is someone that can point me in the right direction. Thanks in advance ! Banjo :insane:

Banjo (got that at school once cause I stood up in class & read the Man from Snowy river" with passion, . . . . so the teacher said) It just struck ! Real Name Keith Daily Drive: KE55 red 2 door coupe with Cheviots, which is about to be rejunvenated. Looking for a 5K engine anyone ? Also drive a 1998 Camry V6, beautiful car, but just not the same feeling as the KE55 criusing at 110 with all the windows down. Location: Grennbank / Brissy. Run my own business, which doesn't provide a lot of spare time, but hope to catch up with all you guys soon at some club function. :D

After recently suffering a blown head gasket, after thermostat failed, (You may remember,wife got locked in the cupboard for a week for that indiscresion) I realised how much we all seem to neglect the essential old water system. Anyway, I've always put Toyota water conditioner in my 4KC, but the head job I just did on the engine demonstrated clearly how much scale etc. builds up in these things; which I suppose is to be expected when you consider the engines we are playing with, have been around for 20 odd years. Anyway it now has head reconditioned, new gaskets, new hoses, new cap, new thermostat, & I even recored the radiator, as the stress of the head blow created little leaks here & there in core. Lucky the alloy parts have not suffered too much corrosion over the years so I figure if I give the water system a good clean out & then add the best water treatment I can find, it will live for many more years. Now if the total engine had been out, and the block stripped down, you'd obviously get it chemically cleaned. In this case, the block never came out, so I went looking at SuperPro & the like the other day, as to what water system cleaning/additives were available. Heaven's; there heaps of them ranging from about $ 5.00 up to about $ 20.00. Likewise for water treatment, there is again a vast range of products ranging from $ 10.00 to about $ 40.00. I'm always concerned in additives to engines where mixed alloy/cast iron is used, and the effect on descaling products on the water pump seal. In years gone by, I've cleaned the water system in the car, only to have the water pump fail within a short period. So interested in feedback as to what products for descaling & water conditioning others in the RollaClub have used recently with good results. Most of the descaler/cleaners only have to be run for a about 30 - 60 minutes to do their thing. I was thinking of popping in the old radiator just while I clean the engine out, as the last thing I want to do is block up my newly recored radiator. My engineering guy out at AI Engines at Jimboomba told me you wouldn't believe how many head jobs he does as a result of failed thermostats. He thinks they are essential, but a high failure item, and his personal recommendation is to replacement them annually. When you think that they are only a little blob of parriffin wax that heats & expands and eventually leaks by the seal, he is probably right. At $8 -$10 (aftermarket) they are not really expensive. The dearest one I could see was for a Ford F100 at about $ 28.00. I commented that in the Qld. climate you could just as well leave them out. His comment was that this also causes problems, as the water flow increases, to the point where the water doesn't actually stay in the core long enough to cool down sufficiently. I have left the thermostat out in days gone by, and not had troubles. However, I have always ripped the guts out of the thermostat and still used it's outer ring, which results in the same water flow, as if the thermostat was wide open. Anyway, I'd been interested in any comments re this subject and especially recommendations on cleaning & additive products others have used with success. :P

Thanks guys ! Alas ! Alas ! It was just a standard 3K head, with the four sided flat plate at the rear of the head. Thanks Teddy. Wish it had had a welsh plug. I'll keep my eyes open now I know what to look for. I guess they're as scarce as hen's teeth. I love going through wreckers out in country towns. It's amazing what you find there. I think I read that you can pop a 3K big port head straight onto a 4KC and it will up the compression ration to about 10:1 or thereabouts. My little old 4KC is just starting to use a bit of oil. Would like to drop a 5K into it if I can get hold of one. Anyone know of a good one for sale ? Other than that I've got a 4K-U sitting here in the garage, condition unknown, that I might do up & then swap over. Would love a 5K. As someone has said on these pages before. "There's no substitue for CCs" :)

Was having a clean up in my garage the other day and came across a 3K head I'd forgotten I had. Question ! How do you tell the difference between a 3k big port & a 3k std head ? Did a quick search but can't find the answer. I guess it's only the dimenisions of the manifold port openings; but what are those dimensions. Thanks ! :)

Heh CryptOrchid, If you want to take a drive in your new KE20 to beautiful S.E. Queensland over the next few weeks, you've got a lot of friends here you haven't met yet, that would love to take a look; "droooool", over your new aquisition. If you can't make it, Just keep posting those photos. Cheers ! :doublebird:

Now now now ! No blaspheming ! I told you. The little old lady who owned the KE20, probably drive it to church every week. The KE20 has probably been to church more times than all of us ! :doublebird:

O.K. O.K. I'll get in before anyone else says it ! "BANJO has been eating those mushrooms referred to above." Delicious ! Sauted on a nice fillet steak. Must be tea-time ! :doublebird:

Thanks Datgirl ! Next time we meet, I'll tell you about when I was travelling around Iceland in my KE55 with engine trouble in the snow. A polar bear that looked very like that Bundy one on TV, appeared. Asked if we needed help & then ripped the head off my 4K-C. Cheers ! :doublebird:

Ants ! Frogs ! Mushrooms ! Well I've had a snake or two in my day, when we've taken our cars out bush, but the best was my sister. Lives in Katherine in N.T. on a farm. Big flood in 1998 wiped them out. Everything went under, house, sheds, tractors, cars. When they went back to the farm after the waters had nearly receded, there was the Corolla, way down the paddock, about a mile from the where it was before the flood. Imagine her reaction when upon opening the door out pops a croc. Lucky he was a small one. :doublebird:

Why didn't I meet that little old lady ! sob I actually had a KE20, exactly the same colour years ago in the highlands of Papua New Guinea. Unfortunately it didn't look as good as this one. Wow is your's a beauty ! Mine you; what we did to our KE20 and where we took it on dirt roads, it could have never looked like this. I'm with the rest of the boys. Keep it stock standard. Better still. Donate it to the RollaClub Museum, then we can all get to drool over it. 40,000 klms ! Probably only to church & back on Sundays. Ha! Ha! Ha! Think we should do a big picture shoot on this one Nick ! Whose got a good digital camera. :doublebird:

Just checked the free length of all my valve springs on my 4KC before I do a head recon this week. The good book says they should be 46.5mm free length. Mine are all over the place, between 44.8 & 45.9mm Me thinks I should fit a new set. Where's a good place in Brisbane to pick up a new set of std 4KC valve springs, without making my local Toyota guy richer. Maybe someones got a new standard set in a box lying around that they have never used, who would like to part with them for some green stuff. PM me & I will arrange the transaction. Other thing I'm after, but can't locate, is the rear leaf spring separator or isolator/insulation. It's the thin nylon spacer that fits in between each spring leaf to stop them rubbing together as springs slide on each other. There's 6-8 required for each spring. I checked Toyota & they only had 20 left in Australia in Sydney. Asked how much. $ 19.00. I thought, "that's OK for set of 8" Oh no. That was each. Ouch ! Anyone know where you can get these ? Have checked all the Super Auto Cheap, Repco, AutoPro etc. but no joy. Maybe one of the spring recondition mobs ? ? ? Thanks Heaps. Banjo