1G-GTE KE70's New Plan

[Mr Revhead[RL]]

uuummm... no.....

-7 is too much for anything! you need more front end grip, trust me try 3-4 max and see what happens... anymore and you will lose front end grip...

 

not all cars alter camber that much when turning... and bodyroll does play a big part in it.. think about how things move....

[mikeys toy[RL]]

so what does it mean when my tires are like this; \ / full lock?

axis inclination?

what setting would best help me stay stable in the wind?

[demuire]

camber has nothing to do with body roll mate.

 

I am sorry, you are wrong.

 

You make it sound as if basic suspension theory doen't apply to drift cars, but I'm afraid it does. Yes, I understand that drift cars are most often at opposite lock, and yes I know that drift cars need to oversteer lots and not understeer at all (ie, they need to turn in very well) and they need to be very responsive. All good.

 

The main reason wheels go from || to \\ when you turn the wheel, is because of castor. Castor is effectively dynamic camber. When the wheels are pointing straight, you have little camber, when you turn the wheel, you get more camber (and in the correct direction, too). Yes, castor also makes the car more stable at higher speeds due to more self-centering of the steering wheel etc, but will also make your steering more heavy, which isn't necessarily good (eg: motorkhana).

 

If you keep in mind the fact that your suspension is still part of your car body, you will see that when the body rolls, the suspension angles also change. That's why you need to get your tyres to "lean" into the corner. How to achieve this? Castor and camber. Castor usually preferable, camber when you reach the limits of how much castor you can dial (or if you don't want heaps of castor for whatever reason, eg heavy steering etc). Too much camber will sacrifice a lot of straight line grip.

 

Sure it looks cool. No it's not optimal to handling.

[demuire]

Benefits of castor: (more positive castor/laid back more)

 

Maximizes tire contact patch during roll, braking, and acceleration

Improves turn-in response

Increase directional stability

Improved steering "feel" and self-center

Increases dynamic negative camber during turn in

 

Castor Vs Camber:

 

Camber doesn't improve turn-in, positive caster does.

Camber is not good for tire wear.

Camber doesn't improve directional stability.

Camber adversely effects braking and acceleration.

[demuire]

And here are some links maybe you can read:

 

Whiteline

 

Handling and suspension

[1G-GTE KE70]

I think you are mistaking the car I want to build for a rally car.

 

yes I know most of those theory's applys but it's not like I need front wheel grip because I am corning hard. the front wheels will basically be used to steer the car while sideways and hold it out there. Loss of traction (clutch pop, smash 2nd/3rd whatever/handbrake) will get the rear end out, not by flicking car (not that that isn't a way to do it). I don't really do the feint drift (scandanavian flick) all that much so straight line grip isn't that much of a concern but of course I'm not going to set it up so that unless the wheels are at full lock then there is absolutely no grip at all.

 

I'm not saying I don't need caster at all. of course that's not true, it's a vital part of any cars handling.

 

but as for your comments about body roll... I think with 8.5/7.5kg springs and suiting shocks, rollcage, huge sway bars, light weight and seam welded there won't be much body roll. if any. there may be a tiny tiny tiny bit of chassis flex but no body roll.. maybe if i kept the standard AE71 suspension.. but no.

Edited May 25, 2005 by 1G-GTE KE70

[demuire]

Most drift cars I know are set up a heap stiffer than mine, so will roll less.

 

Yes, I know your car will roll very little. If at all.

 

I think you are mistaking the car I want to build for a rally car.

 

No, I know completely well that you want a drift car, not a rally car.

 

yes I know most of those theory's applys but it's not like a need front wheel grip because I am corning hard. the front wheels will basically be used to steer the car while sideways. I don't really do the feint drift (scandanavian flick) all that much so straight line grip isn't that much of a concern but of course I'm not going to set it up so that unless the wheels are at full lock then there is absolutely no grip at all.

 

No comment.

 

Seriously though, it's your car, so set it up how you like it. When it comes to suspension there's always more than one way to skin a cat (for instance some people recon you should have very hard springs and light swaybar, while others think otherwise), but no matter which school of thought you follow, and what sort of car you are setting up, there are certain theories that will apply.

 

Enough rambling from me :thumbsup:

[1G-GTE KE70]

anyway enough about suspension now.

 

I know you can have an intercooler on 4A-GZE's I'm assuming with the 1G supercharger (they are the same method of induction aren't they? both roots?) that you can intercool them?

 

I was thinking about having a bar and plate intercooler but then just before it goes into the intake manifold have a small dry ice intercooler.

 

I don't know much about superchargers. don't some just push air straight into the intake with no piping?

 

Thanks!

[demuire]

Keep in mind that while intercoolers do good by cooling down intake, they will also pose a restriction. Also, superchargers don't put anywhere near as much heat into the air as turbo's, so you probably wouldn't require all that much cooling...

 

As for whether you can intercool the supercharger, I would guess (and this is a guess) yes. All superchargers/turbos etc have an "in" and "out". I think on most non-intercooled cars the supercharger is positioned such that the "out" is right next to the intake manifold. I suppose if that is the case for you, maybe you can move the supercharger so that you have space to pipe an intercooler in...

[1G-GTE KE70]

yes good point about the supercharger not making as much heat. I was thinking about that but wasn't sure.

 

so tube and fin intercooler you reckon?

 

don't need as much cooling and they flow a lot better than bar and plate.

[demuire]

Don't know anything about intercoolers, so can't comment. I suppose being a drift car (and therefore 90% WF), get the biggest thing you can find, that flows the most. That should be more than adequate.

[1G-GTE KE70]

So I buy 2 identical sized intercoolers. 1 tube and fin, 1 bar and plate and test them both out then swap depending on temperature?

 

sounds like a plan to me.

[demuire]

Instead of buying 2, why not just speak to someone who knows lots about them (ie someone who makes them) and find out what flows better? Yes, superchargers do create heat, but not all that much.

 

The intercooler on the Mini (the JCW one, so cutting no corners) is... smaller than the breadbox on the WRX, and is more than adequate. And the Mini is 1.6L as well, so would equate quite well to a 4AGZE. I'm not sure what sort of intercooler it is, though.

 

Needless to say, you'll go for a front mount (which would work better than the top mount on the Mini), and one that's far too big for the car, cause it looks cool. So I doubt you'll have any issues, even if you go for the one that flows better but doesn't cool as much :thumbsup:

[demuire]

 

That's the Mini intercooler. This Mini isn't a JCW, but the JCW one is the same size. AFAIK the JCW kit is basically a difference in airbox, injectors, supercharger and exhaust.

[ancullen]

If it were me I'd just go for a small to mid-sized bar & plate front mount intercooler. All 4AGZE's came with an intercooler, so if you're going to use the bigger SC14 blower from the 1GGZE, I'd think it'd be a good idea to use an intercooler.

 

I'd get some custom intake piping done, as well as a good intake manifold setup, as the 4AGZE's standard one is shit. That way you should get much better flow into the cylinders, and if you only get a moderately sized intercooler, you won't loose much boost pressure, but you will lose heat (which is obviously good). And with the engine being revved like buggery under drifting conditions, an intercooler would be a must.

 

If you're unsure about the exact size intercooler you should use, talk to a workshop or email an intercooler manufacturer. I'd think something around 450x300x60 would do the trick, as it'd be much bigger than a standard 4AGZE jobbie, but you should check to be sure.