Ke70 Suspension - Shocks/springs

[Hirst]

Hello! I have searched for info, but I'm struggling to find all the info I need. The suspension on my Charmant (rebodied KE70) is awful - it is worn out and it sits far too high, so I'm after new shocks and springs. I don't require race suspension or anything like that, but I don't mind spending a decent amount of cash for quality items. I want to bring my suspension down so it sits nicely in the arches, something like a 40-50mm drop, nothing extreme. I only use my car on the road and it still uses the stock 4K (will do for another year or so) so I don't want/need a hard "racetrack" setup.

 

This is how it sits now, monster truck style:

 

I know there are a few sets of KYB shocks available, Excel G and the Gas Adjust ones. I like the sound of the Excel G ones and can get them at a decent price - any thoughts? Anyone have any other recommendations? I've seen Koni ones I recall.

 

As for the lowering springs, this is where I'm stuck. The only ones I know of are those King ones, how much do they lower it? Any good? What about other sorts? I ask this as my driveway is on an awkward slope so I can't go too low or I won't be able to get it down the drive.

 

Let me know if you want any more info and thanks!

[andro0o]

personally i think if your going to get shocks do it right the first time, buy adjustable shocks (yes theyre more expensive) but the advatange of being able to adjust how soft or hard they are makes them really worth the money.

 

i don't care what anyone says, a spring is a spring, so jsut go for a nice soft spring rate from pedders (i dno if they have that in the uk) or whatever other cheapo brand and have it compressed to the ride height you want, cause chopping springs is dangerous, unless you have a short stroke shock which will keep the spring captive.

 

edit: phat rims!

Edited July 28, 2007 by andro0o

[bullet79]

yep.. adjustable shocks is better.. but somtimes stiffer... and carefull when choosing spring tension load

[tojo2]

Off topic I know, but just have to ask. posted instead of pm since I`m sure I`m not the only one who would like to know:

 

What gearbox does the charmant use? I read that it was a 5speed but is it a k50 or a t50? Does it have a seperate bellhousing? Hydraulic or wire clutch ?

Cheers, Tor

Edited July 28, 2007 by tojo2

[Hirst]

andro0o: Thanks! For those who don't know, they're an old set of Work Equips. Better pic which shows how high up the suspension is:

 

tojo2: My Charmant uses the K50 box and 4K engine, exactly same as a KE70 DX. Though you could get the K40 4-speed on the LD spec, a super-base spec only available in Japan and a few other countries. All other mechanicals are same too, brakes, suspension, etc. But there's also a 1.6L Charmant that uses a T50 box and some other Toyota engine I forgot (not a 4AGE or anything exciting sadly).

 

Adjustables are interesting, are there any springs that would suit off the shelf, or any particularly good combo? I've seen the TRD ones available and Koni.

[andro0o]

andro0o: Thanks! For those who don't know, they're an old set of Work Equips. Better pic which shows how high up the suspension is:

 

tojo2: My Charmant uses the K50 box and 4K engine, exactly same as a KE70 DX. Though you could get the K40 4-speed on the LD spec, a super-base spec only available in Japan and a few other countries. All other mechanicals are same too, brakes, suspension, etc. But there's also a 1.6L Charmant that uses a T50 box and some other Toyota engine I forgot (not a 4AGE or anything exciting sadly).

 

Adjustables are interesting, are there any springs that would suit off the shelf, or any particularly good combo? I've seen the TRD ones available and Koni.

 

 

1.6L charmants use a 4ac don't they..?

 

I'm not sure whats available to you over there in the uk, but personally in my opinion if your gonna build a cruizer just go for some king springs, although they do still sit relatively high as they come, just get them compressed. koni shocks are good, trd is better, though you don't need the best of the best if your not going to be stressing them that hard me thinks.

 

also whats the size and offset on the equips..?

[chrisandliz[RL]]

If I had my cash back in my hand (I got kings) , and was going to buy some springs I would look at getting "white line" springs

 

http://www.whitelineautomotive.co.uk/

 

as for the shocks, you get what you pay for.

 

I have kyb, excel g in my t18 and they are much better than the standard single tube oil filled

 

hope this helps

 

Chris

[andro0o]

can someone please explain the difference between an 8kg whiteline spring and 8kg king spring and an 8kg pedders spring and an 8kg trd spring..?

 

a spring is a spring..

[Redwarf]

A spring is not necessarily a spring. Hint: Just because they say it's a 8kg spring doesn't actually mean that it's a 8 kg spring, or the ride height you actually want.

[ke70dave]

can someone please explain the difference between an 8kg whiteline spring and 8kg king spring and an 8kg pedders spring and an 8kg trd spring..?

 

a spring is a spring..

 

i mostly agree with you on that one, I'm of the oppinion that most brand new springs will be jsut as good, but i think the difference comes in with age. ie will the spring still be 8kg in 2 yrs time? i have some falcon springs in my car, picked them up cheap from the wreckers, and they are completely rooted (i never thought i would find "broken" spring) but i did. they appear to be really stiff (when you push on the back of car), but whenever you hit a bump they compress like crazy, and thus make an uncomfortable ride. so yeah in the short term all springs are the same, but in the long term what will they be like...

 

(am i talking crap?)

 

as for shocks, i got some KYB excel g shocks brand new (they are from a commondore wagon) so they are shortstroke and quite stiff, this is for the rear, and they seem to do the job pretty well

 

i dunno about the front sorry, as ive just got coilovers

[bullet79]

actually the spring rate is use to match/tuned the shock character....

[andro0o]

i mostly agree with you on that one, I'm of the oppinion that most brand new springs will be jsut as good, but i think the difference comes in with age. ie will the spring still be 8kg in 2 yrs time? i have some falcon springs in my car, picked them up cheap from the wreckers, and they are completely rooted (i never thought i would find "broken" spring) but i did. they appear to be really stiff (when you push on the back of car), but whenever you hit a bump they compress like crazy, and thus make an uncomfortable ride. so yeah in the short term all springs are the same, but in the long term what will they be like...

 

(am i talking crap?)

 

as for shocks, i got some KYB excel g shocks brand new (they are from a commondore wagon) so they are shortstroke and quite stiff, this is for the rear, and they seem to do the job pretty well

 

i dunno about the front sorry, as ive just got coilovers

 

 

i agree with all that you wrote, was jsut refering to new springs not second hand, apologies for not making that clear. with shocks though you do get what you pay for though.

 

sorry for clogging up your thread Hirst ill open up a new thread.

[Hirst]

It's no problem, I like to hear the pros and cons from everyone! I don't really have great knowledge of springs as I've never had to buy them. However, I can get the Whiteline "Control" springs for a reasonable price, it says they will lower the vehicle between 15-40mm.

 

If it's towards the latter it should look OK, but tell me a bit more about compressing springs - are there any disadvantages to that? How do you get it done? I'm not wanting to lower the vehicle substantially, I just want the car to sit right instead of being "jacked up" like it is now. I've read up about cutting springs, but I don't like the sound of that to be honest, it sounds OK for a cruiser type car, but too much of a compromise for sports driving.

 

Thanks for the assistance so far, has helped a great deal. KE70s are quite rare over here, modified ones even more, so it's quite hard to get decent info. Plus as you can tell I know very little about shocks and springs, I've never had to change any before!

[ke70dave]

i don't know to much about compressing springs sorry, i guess you just take them to an engineering place or soemthign and get them to compress them, i assume they heat them up as well?

 

as for cutting springs, it is kinda dodgy, but not as dodgy as everyone makes out as long as you have short stroke shocks to keep the springs captive.

 

I'm not sure on your level of knowledege, but a spring being captive means that if you pick the car up by the chassis, and the wheels drop down, the springs stay "stuck" in the car, they are being held in by the shocks. uncaptive springs are particually dangerous (too long of shocks and the wheels drop down to far), as if you go over a large bump, the spring might fall off its proper spot, or even worse fall out of the car (never heard of this actually happenin, but it is possible. ive heard of springs falling off the seats a fair bit though).

 

so if you get some shorter/stiffer springs, and you cut them a little bit, it shoudl be fine as long as you get new shocks that keep the springs captive. also note that when you cut springs the spring rate is increased slightly (ie will be stiffer ride)

 

is this any help to you?

[anastasios]

compressing springs reduces spring rate, better brand springs last longer and are more accurate, the only way you can choose what you want is by feeling the setups, we are all different plus you have a different drive way so we can't give you a direct answer, if i was you id begin by chopping the springs you have